Lioness-- I'm gonna be honest when I say I dont agree with the decision that you guys made as a group. My first post in this discussion was even somewhat harsh towards your org for making that decision and I even retracted a comment from it (which if you do read it, I do apologize to SAEPi for it. It was said when I was cranky and I should have thought more about it). However, what's done has been done. And like some others I am now trying to be optimisitic and hope that something positive can come out of this, because I 'm not gonna lie when I say that I think there will be some damage done. Its just what can we as Greeks so to combat it? Thank you for answering my question also. I know that they probably had the camaras on you guys just about 24/7 and was wondering if any rituals/traditons would be shown.

Lioness and other Sigma's on GC:

Good job in keeping your rituals to yourself... :) And I do hope this turns out positivly for you- I know I have posted some concerned posts, but I do hope things work out and keep us posted on how things go this year.

I have decided, like other GCers to wait for the show... which will be a toughie for me... cos... it airs the 24th... Hard Rock PITTSBURGH opens the 24th... decisions, decisions...

okay-

well back to the drawing board... for what? Dunno!

Lioness
 

Hey Lioness! Was Sergio Myers a dork?

http://www.sacbee.com/ips_rich_conte...ers250x400.jpg
Maybe he's saying "I am no dork...I am Serrrr-gio."

I've noticed that the sigmas on this board are upset about the reactions and comment that people have made. Well, unfortunately, you had better get used to it because this is only the beginning, believe me. I'm sorry, but when you make a choice to be publicly displayed, you have lost your rights to privacy. You sday, "oh, but that's not fair, you're judging us..." I'm sorry, but tough. I"m sure that with all of your deliberations and advice, it must have become clear that this would be the consequence. I don't mean to be harsh, it's not at really at you specifically that I'm annoyed, just the whole situation. But understand this: you have made your decision and for better or worse you must live with it. You are now media symbols, and cannot expect the public to refrain from reacting to you. Random people will come up to individual sisters a year from now on the street and say things like, "oh my god, you're the bitch from tv, I saw how you hooked up with all those guys, you whore!" or "how could you say that about your pledge, that was so wrong." Again, and again, and again. Trust me, anything you encounter here is mild, consider it a warmup to reality. Also to say that because it was "inevitable" that SOMEone was going to do this, does it justify you doing it? I mean, I'm sure that it's inevitable that SOMEone is going to be murdered in the next year, does that make it ok for me to run out and do it? Ummm...not so much methinks. As was well said, this is a forum for people to post their reactions, ideas and opinions. If you are upset by it...well, consider it a consequence to a dangerous choice. This whole situation should serve as a warning to all of us---always be careful in making PR decisions, or any decision that is bigger than you are. When you come in to the public eye, you will always be scrutinized. And to believe that you can just walk into it with no other weapons but optimism and blind hope is not only naive, but as I said, dangerous. I wish you guys luck, just remember, to request that people keep their opinions to themselves is a futile battle at this point, what you must do is toughen yourselves up to deal with it, cuz it ain't going to stop. Good luck

I completely and wholeheartedly agree, Cloud9. I hereby reserve the right to be offended by, and, quite frankly, embarrassed for, any chapter, national or local, that chooses, knowing the risks, to exploit themselves in front of a camera with the hopes of increasing their own rush numbers, yet setting the hopes of mainstream Greek acceptance back fifteen years. (wow, what a run-on sentence!)

round and round we go
 

I think I've repeated myself too many times. Nobody has told you not to make conclusions about what you see, that is how we operate. However, when you come to such broad conclusions, without seeing one second of the actual show and what reaction people will have, it is troubling. I cannot believe you even tried to compare this to murder. Murder has a completely negative outcome. How do you know the outcome of this show? "Because I saw a 30 second commercial and some concerned Greeks put messages up on Greekchat.com" Not exactly a good basis for such sweeping conclusions. After the show has aired and if nobody ever rushes a sorority again, it's fine to come to your conclusion of irreparable damage and eternal damnation of Sigma for exposing themselves. Look at all the posts from Greeks like yourself who disagree and can see ways to make light of the "bad parts" (even though we're not sure exactly what they will be) of the show and use it to their advantage. Even if you don't agree, almost everyone on this post has calmed down and realized some things that you haven't. Leave your animosity and the "I told you so" attitude at the door. You told them what? Read the Sigmas' statement. They are prepared for any reaction to what they undertook, even reactions like yours. http://www.sigmaaepi.com

Sigma_Insider
 

I am just curious about something (and this is NOT a post to bash etc.), what exactly is your connection to SAEPI??? You have already told us that you are NOT a member. If you can tell us, or PM me, I am just curious to know since , no offense, you seem be doing the most defending of them and arent even involved in the org.

'They are prepared for any reaction to what they undertook, even reactions like yours. '

I dont think any organization can be fully prepared for legitimate media portrayal, much less an ambiguous, biased source like MTV, and that it is unbelievably arrogant that an organization can think so. I am, however, as well as 99% of this board, willing to be gracious about the whole thing and give you the benefit of the doubt. I have a lot of pressing questions and I realize that MTV can twist certain things around, but they could be real answers and Im curious:

1) Wrestler Mick Foley stated in his book 'Have a Nice Day' that when on a newsmagazine program, he was shown two films of backyard wrestling and asked to give his opinions on each. The first was a mild taping with no one being hurt, and he said it looked like fun. The second was graphic, with lightbulbs and fire being used as weapons, and he replied by making a plea for this not to happen again. When the show aired, it showed the second, violent footage combined with the, 'it looks like fun' answer. Such a practice is legal, however unethical. When asked what your reasons were for joining a sorority, and then what the 'real reasons' were, were your answers grouped with the right questions?

2) Did you at any time speak for another GLO or group of GLOs to exonerate yourselves in front of the camera? (i.e. after appearing excessively drunk or otherwise disreputable, saying 'well, welcome to sorority life' or 'its a Greek thing, all Greeks do it', etc.)

3) Were the sisters that were opposed to the filming allowed to voice their opinions on camera, or at least allowed to not be filmed?

Feel free to not answer anything Ive asked here. You dont have to answer to me, nor do I have any right to pass judgement on your chapter. I, with the facts that I have, disagree with what has been going on thus far. I only ask that you answer my question to give me a better understanding of whats occurred. Until then, please respect the right of myself and others on this board to disagree with and criticize what we perceive as detrimental to Greek acceptance. If you choose to lambast (sp?) us for this for not having the facts, at least be open to questions.

Look where it got you...
 

For those of you who THINK that in the fantasy-land you're living in that no one outside of greekdom would "notice" what MTV has created, here's a little article I found on charlotteobserver.com under Mark Washburn's column:

Posted on Sat, Jun. 15, 2002

TV/RADIO
MTV gets so real with `Sorority Life'
MARK WASHBURN

Sight unseen and from its title alone, I'm ready to pick the best reality series of this reality-rich summer.

"Sorority Life" will take us behind the scenes of a sorority rush as pledges try to join Sigma Alpha Epsilon Pi at the University of California at Davis.

Sorority rush. Oh the rituals, oh the cattiness, oh the cruelty, oh the calories.

This MTV travelogue of college nobility, still in the editing stages and not ready for preview, is scheduled to launch June 24 in a 10:30 p.m. time slot. MTV says it will probably run an hour each week.

Oh the plucking, oh the primping, oh the sheer she-just-doesn't-measure-up-ness. Oh, oh, oh. It just can't miss.

MTV is one of the pioneers of the reality genre that has swept the network landscape. "The Real World" debuted in 1992 with seven young adults plopped into a Manhattan loft and left to stew for months as the cameras drank it in.

CBS's "Survivor" is the conquering king of this drop-'em-in-a-fishbowl-and-watch approach, called "reality programming" even though it's as unreal as any life experience can be.

Did you notice what "GREAT" press greeks are already getting from this?! The "cattiness, cruelty, and calories" -- all I can say is "WAY TO GO GIRLS!" :rolleyes: Yeah - your 5 minutes of fame has cost us all a little more dignity -- which NONE of us can afford at this time.

Maybe you should contact every other publication that carries his commentary and let them know that "YOU REALLY DIDN'T SAY THOSE THINGS" -- I'm sure they'd fall all over themselves to print retractions... :rolleyes:

As if I needed to say it -- DeltAlum, as usual you have called it from the start!

bottomline, the "sorority life" series will do nothing but harm the allready heavy stereotype of sororities.. to the girls out there in the same boat as i, those who are not the stereotype, hold tight and be true to yourself.. it will shine through all these stupid thoughts.. people who believe stereotypes are usually just uneducated to the truth.. lets try to show them!

:rolleyes: Ok, you are not the first on this board unable to understand the relevant point made in a comparison. Let me explain it for you. If you read it over, you can see that I was not comparing reality tv to murder, which is a pretty ridiculous conclusion. My point is that just because something is inevitable, doesn't mean that if you decide to be the one who does it, you are: noble, know what you're doing, or responsible...in fact, quite the opposite. I'll explain it in another way--just because you think that no matter what, SOMEone SOMEwhere is going to make an unwise decision, doesn't mean thaat you should do it. I was hoping that I wouldn't need to explain this concept in such simple terms - I mean, we are all in college. But there you are.

Oh I've read that statement a few times, and all I can say is that they are in no way prepared. Their explanations are feeble at best. But I'm getting carried away--look, I don't really want to "go after" these girls, I don't WISH them evil. I really, really feel bad for them, especially the ones who wisely backed away from it. But I'm dreading the show, I'm dreading the comments I'm going to get from people...comments based on people I've never even met. And you know what, I don't even need to see the episodes, I can already see all the bad publicity coming out of this - on the radio, in the papers, on the web--and it hasn't even aired yet! So to say that "you don't know cuz you haven't seen the show" is basically untrue. We DO know, because everything we've been worried about is already happening. And as before, I guess my main point is that as I said everyone here should really take this whole situation as a serious warning and wakeup call about approaching publicity, and really just using some common sense. Really, it amazes me how gullible people can be sometimes. Anyways, let me end with a fervent wish that all the mayhem that occurs will be at least short lived and forgotten!

I don't really read this thread anymore because I think its way too much drama. Today I was glancing over the thread and I noticed people criticizing sigma alpha epsilon pi. someone said:

Did you notice what "GREAT" press Greeks are already getting from this?! The "cattiness, cruelty, and calories" -- all I can say is "WAY TO GO GIRLS!" Yeah - your 5 minutes of fame has cost us all a little more dignity -- which NONE of us can afford at this time.

Maybe you should contact every other publication that carries his commentary and let them know that "YOU REALLY DIDN'T SAY THOSE THINGS" -- I'm sure they'd fall all over themselves to print retractions...

by reading this, and a few other posts on here i have noticed that some of you girls are bitchy and rude. you get pissed if someone makes you look that way, but you don't try and see other people as different, and having alternative views on subjects. Have you ever agreed to disagree? I understand that this is a drama filled subject and everyone is very emotional...however if you are really nothing like what MTV is trying to make you out to be, then why do you come across as catty?

Exactly, great post!

AXO Alum wrote:

"As if I needed to say it -- DeltAlum, as usual you have called it from the start!"

I take no pleasure in this. I'm not all that bright, it's just that I've spent an awful long time working in TV Production and Production Management.

I still don't like the direct attacks on these women. A mistake is a mistake. I don't think anyone went out to deliberately harm the sorority image or the Greek System. They simply didn't understand the way this genre of "reality shows" work.

And, I still hope that maybe I'll be proven wrong. Sure doesn't look like it, though.

I'm actually not too concerned about this show. Maybe I'll watch it or maybe not. I think that the viewers of MTV are sophisticated enough to know that it isn't reality.

Yes - I posted that! But those were the author's words -- not mine! As far as being catty -- I think losing sight of what MTV was REALLY after in the first place is a worse offense. Am I pissed about this? YES - because just like with other things in life, I hate to see what I have worked hard for fall apart in a matter of minutes because SOMEBODY (in this case those who participated from Sigma Alpha Epsilon Pi) made a POOR decision without thinking about the consequences! And WE all pay for those consequences. Nobody is going to watch this and say "oh, that's just the SAEPi's" -- nope, just like Mark Washburn did, it will be generalized to ALL sororities and greek life. Because this is what we have to deal with - media who wants the slant.

Anyone watch Survivor because you know that they are all going to be great friends and no one will get the boot? Hardly! You watch because you WANT to see the drama. Anybody go to see a movie because you heard it SUCKED and you want to watch people be nice to each other with no action? Yeah right!

Call me a bitch and call me rude if you want to - I've been called worse and here I am with MY opinion as always. I'm sorry, but I've worked too hard to see things fall apart on television in what we all knew was going to be the slanted view in the first place.

Hmmm...I know - let's all play "NICE" about this and pretend that nothing bad will come of it (not that we aren't already seeing the negative responses in the media!) Maybe if we all pretend really hard then we can all live in Fantasy Land!

(Side note...DeltAlum - I certainly wasn't calling you out - I just know that the other 3 million times we've discussed these issues, you have always said where it will lead. You have the most experience of anyone on these boards as far as media publications go, and you know what you're talking about. Unfortunately, some people STILL will not believe that crap stinks until they put their noses in it!!)

I don't know if you have seen the new Sorority Life commercial, but it says Life can be a bitch, and in this house we have a lot of them! Then they have members saying stuff like oh ya your going to gossip about everyone, people are bitchy, etc......thanks again girls.

I just saw the commercial....."Life's a BITCH and we've got a HOUSE FULL OF THEM!!? With all of the girls descrbing how much DRAMA there is in the house! WTF...with an intro like that, you know you're not going to see a positive view of sorority life!

OK, I know a lot of people are upset, but do we really have to kick these girls while they are already down?

I understand that many people aren't happy about the situation because of the outcome this show may have. However, these girls are part of the Greek system. If your brother or sister did something you saw was very wrong/in bad judgement, would you constantly belittle them and make them feel worse then they all ready do, especially if they now understood they may have made a mistake? My guess is that you would get mad, but would eventually help them.

Yes, some may be mad at what happened, but instead of yelling at these girls, maybe all of us in the Greek community should calm ourselves for a moment and help those that may have made a decision that wasn't in their best interest. Comments like "Nice job girls," etc. etc. isn't helping anyone.

In fact, it may be proving a point to those who don't support Greeks that we aren't all really there for each other after all... and I know that isn't true. Just something for people to think about.

Let me start off by answering a few questions...
mrblonde-1. if you read some of the previously-posted messages, you will find that the phrases inserted in the promo were not reflective of the questions that were posed in the interviews. Of course, we knew that things would be taken out of context, but again, we were willing to accept that risk in the name of presenting our true qualities somewhere later down the line. 2. No Sigma that I know of would ever generalize our actions to the entire greek community. 3. Every sister in Sigma is allowed to voice her concerns, and yes, it was made very clear that sisters and rushees had the right to not be on camera. Thank you for trying to find out more about this situation.
FHwku-Yes, he’s a big dork! Finally, something we can all agree on! :)

And now for my novel...

While I know that greek chat is a valuable medium for addressing our thoughts and concerns, being away from it for awhile made me realize how important it is to stay out of this inevitable stir that the show will bring. I especially realized this after reading people’s reactions to the new promo, which were nearly identical to the reactions of the first one. If it took this long to clear some of the misconceptions about that one-minute clip, only to return to square one, in which people will continue to watch their TV screens and newspapers devoid of a critical eye, then I know I will completely tax myself out if I remain on this network when the show actually airs. All I intended to do was to help you see the the real side of things before making assumptions like "Sigma is selfish and doesn't care about the show’s impact on the Greek community" or "all they wanted was five minutes of fame." Hopefully, at least some of you have realized that neither was the case. I am absolutely O.K. with those of you who will ultimately think this was a big mistake, but only after you have gathered hard facts about the situation, not only concerning our motivations, but also regarding the effects that the show will have on the Greek system. If you hear first-hand a Sigma say she wanted to be on the show for “five minutes of fame”or a new couch, then go ahead and say that some of us were ill-intentioned. If you hear someone in Sigma say she had no idea that bad things would come of this, go ahead and say we’re living in “fantasy land.” If, after the show has aired, you hear a prospective greek member say that he or she was considering joining a fraternity or sorority until the show aired, then go ahead and say that everything for which we have been working so hard has amounted to nothing. I know there will be points where we’ll all be cringing at some of the upcoming scenes--including us Sigmas, of course. But I, for one, refuse to believe that any TV show, bad press, or negative viewer reaction will EVER tear Sigma apart, or for that matter, any other strong organization, especially ones that have been around 100 years longer than us. I am proud of our values, and no matter how much or how little they will shine through in the series, they will remain there when we return to school in the fall and long after.

Kappa Tarzan, I couldn’t have said it better myself: “to the girls out there in the same boat as i, those who are not the stereotype, hold tight and be true to yourself.. it will shine through all these stupid thoughts.. people who believe stereotypes are usually just uneducated to the truth.. lets try to show them!” And that’s exactly what we’ll keep on doing.

Signing off...

Greeks know the myths and the rumors. Maybe non-Greeks don't. I had one girl look at me with a straight face(she wasn't Greek) and tell me that she heard that the XYZ's on her campus hazed their pledges and circled their fat. And she was dead serious. So, when MTV shows a so-called reality show like this, people are going to assume that this is what all Greeks do. I'm especially afraid that the girls who just graduated highschool and are heading off to college are going to think this is true. When I was a freshman, I believed what I heard, because I didn't know any better. Now, I do.

I'm also dreading what my friends are going to say to me-my non-Greek friends-after they see the show. I'm upset that I have to take the shit because one group decided that this was a great idea.

What brings in RATINGS?? Drama...Not girls sitting around having chants and singing songs..MTV did this for a reason to get more people to watch and that is their main focus, is to get grils having fights and storylines..Why do some of us watch reality shows like Real World or Road Rules? To see some ass kickin'..I think it is sad that it is going to have it's negative effects on the Greek System but we can all make it through this cause we are strong minded individuals and whatever problems comes our way we have to shake them haters off basically,lol..Drama about drama just causes more Drama...Even though I have a problem with the series I am not going to watch it and I urge you all to do the same if it is bothering you all so much.

We have always had stereotypes about us for many,many years and still have continued to become a strong system. So don't stress is what I am saying but it is good to know everyone's opinions on the fact that we are not what the public believes us to be. Okay let me stop now I don't wanna write a novel.:)

babe, you didn't get my post at all....reread it and possibly you will see what i was saying.

AXOAlum---on target, as always!!!

This whole idea is sickening. Pure stupidity on their parts.

ok....honestly....

I'm just as pissed off about this as everyone else. But it has already been done and what more can we do about it? basically nothing! As the Panhellenic President on my campus, I know that we will experience the questions from PNMs and so on....but we have to learn that we need to stand our ground and continue to show what our organizations really stand for...whether local or national. Its not like these stereotypes have never existed, its just the fact that we are trying to get rid of them. I can say that honestly they will never go away and that is clear. I believe people will still be interested in joining if we keep from delivering these stereotypes in our everyday actions.
I guess we will just see what happens after this show is broadcasted on national TV. Until then, I will keep my opinion about the women who agreed to doing this to myself, because in a way I feel as if they might of thought it was a good idea at the time. Poor judgement....thats all. Lets not beat them into the ground just to blow off our steam. Watch or don't watch...it'll affect chapters across the nation either way you look at it. Just deal with it and everything will be ok (i hope).

theres my 2 cents.....

Hmmm....maybe you should come to my campus and talk to the XO ladies about what kind of hell they go through during recruitment (formal and informal) because of a totally mis-guided website by some of GC's resident psychos!! And its not just on my campus -- its other places where XO is - you'll read for yourself on these boards where PNM's, daughters of greeks, etc. are at campuses with XO and they all want to know if the stuff described on that website is for real -- and we all KNOW its not true!! You don't have to be a XO to know that that website is full of lies. The point of the matter remains that its VERY hard (if not impossible) to undo the negative stuff -- EVEN if it is completely false to begin with!

I am glad that you are proud of your values -- I am not trying to take that away from you. I am simply shaking my head and wishing that SOMEBODY would have thought about this before they went through with it. Notice the headline of that article I posted...did it say "SIGMA Life" - honestly, did it? You tell me what it said and what groups that word GENERALIZES!

Apparantly from all the commercials, SOMEBODY is saying stuff! And I'm sorry, but how you can stand by and let the words "house full of them" in references to BITCHES be something that you are proud of?? That doesn't show ANY kind of values to me.....but then again, (as I'm fond of saying on here) my momma taught me better. :rolleyes:

As for those of us being accused of "kicking them while they are down" -- I think of it more like this:

You lay down with dogs - you get up with FLEAS! (Just another momma-ism from AXO Alum) -- I care too much about my organization and my sisters than to go and let my chapter screw themselves into something like this.

Cash - thanks - you are the kind of SISTER that I am SO proud to call mine :D

Why yes, I had. Is it just me? Or, do these girls look really "tv" like? :rolleyes:

This is either going to make or break the greek system.
More likely to break. :mad::(

MTV+greek life+drama+stereotypes+MILLIONS OF PRE-COLLEGE VIEWERS=Disaster for greeks.

I don't know what that sorority was thinking when they let MTV step foot into their territory. As someone mentioned, this IS NOT a national vs. local thing, the non-greeks couldn't care less, all they will see is a SORORITY and that's it.

Let's prepare to boycott this show! :mad:

I totally don't think we need to boycott the show-YET. Give it a few episodes, and then we'll go nuts...as i am sure NPC is going to do anyway.

And for those of you who are part of Sigma get ready for some serious bashing of your sisters. I have been around this board a few times, and I don't think anyone is going to have any trouble bashing anything that comes off negative. Just a warning.

Well I don't know about your houses, but lets face it most of us, when we live together are catty and bitchy. living in my sorority house was pure hell. Some sisters stuffed one girls stuff in orange garbage bags and wrote biohazard on them bc this girl would make up stuff about girls in the house to tell guys etc. There were many more bad moments than this.
If someone is going to believe everything they see on tv then we probably don't want them in our house any way. But the truth is when you get a big group of girls together there are going to be fights which is unfortunate.

You're right too much estrogen doesn't mix! :D
Even if there isn't a house. But, I think the bigger concern is that MTV has a big reputation for reinforcing stereotypes. I wouldn't be surprised at all if I see these girls binge drinking or being sexually loose on the show. :mad:

Hell, that's crazy! NOTHING like that ever happened in my house. I'm not saying we were always lovey-dovey or that people always got along or even that we never accidentally hurt each other - but there were lines we did NOT cross!

I lived in the house too. We didn't always get along, but it usually involved slamming doors and the occasional eating of someone elses food just to piss them off. but nothing major.

Dont get carried away. Remember, these are the same fools who think Eminem is talented. lol.

Lifesaver, you are too funny! :D

re: PSGAE Coalition [Pissed-off Sorority Girls Against Eminem]
 

Is this now an Eminem-bashing thread?? Come on now, you may not like him but he has some serious talent. Get his new record and you will see.....



-Sigma Insider

".....cause it feels so empty without me"

Guess who's back? SH80's back!!!!!
 

Don't be hating on Eminem! ;)

Chicka checka chicka checka this out!

http://mtv.com/onair/sorority_life/

If anybody wants a comic break, here's an article about just how bad MTV's show are:
http://www.satirewire.com/briefs/mtv.shtml

Granted I didn't read all of them, but at least two of the pledges mentioned how much pledging affected their study time and stuff. Comments like "oh my gosh yes" and "school became number three on my priority list" are not good comments. My grades went up during pledge period. That doesn't help the image at all...