Re: Re: Social Fraternity
 

I'm not a member of SAI, but I am pretty sure it is a member of the Professional Fraternity Association. I am not sure if that is different than government recognition

http://www.profraternity.org/Members.asp?M=59

Just going to put in my opinion.

I know that my school is probably a lot different from everyone else's, but... if you were to ask me to name the Greek Orgs on our campus, I would say: Beta, TKE, Fiji, Phi Delt, Snu, Pi Phi and Tri Delt. We have APO and SAI, but I don't consider them to be Greek, really. I think it is because I never hear about them actually doing anything. I know that they MUST do things, but if they do, they are the only ones who know about it. That sounds so awful to say... but it is all I can say, at least for my campus.

I do have to say, though, that I have a friend who goes to a different school who is in PMA Sinfonia, and he really likes it, and feels like it is the place for him. Of course, it's a much larger school, with a much larger Greek system. But I am glad that he was able to find his place, just like I was able to find mine in Pi Phi.

I think when it comes down to it, you shouldn't worry about whether you're "Greek" enough or not. As long as you found the place (or places, I suppose) that are right for you, then that should be enough.

Re: Re: Re: Social Fraternity
 

That's true, but S_A_I is correct in that we are registered with the IRS as a social organization.

Re: Re: Re: Social Fraternity
 

You are right - SAI is a member of the Professional Fraternity Association. We are also a member of the National Interfraternity Music Council. However, Phi Mu Alpha is also a member of both orgs and they are social? Not trying to start an argument - I was just saying that for tax purposes, we are social. If we were registered with government as a professional, we would have to allow men to join. (I think!) :) :D

-Jessica

But think about one thing. Social GLOs usually have 50+ members. Groups like SAI average between 10-25 members, because since you have to have had at least one music class to pledge, this narrows down eligible girls. Out of all the eligible girls, only a certain number will have a desire to join a music GLO, and out of the ones interested, some will pledge other groups, since most schools have Tau Beta Sigma, Delta Omicron, or other similar groups. So, you end up with a continous small chapter.

Social GLOs are obviously more recognized because they are larger, and larger groups can do more. Also, larger groups are OBVIOUSLY going to be more well known around campus because there's 50+ people sporting letters as opposed to about 10 in SAI.

SAI does many things (at least my chapter does). We host socials, dances, parties, mingling activities, we help out the music department by ushering for recitals and the like.... but we ALSO do other kinds of service projects, like we are participating in the Up Til Dawn thing for St. Jude Hospital, which many groups around campus(mostly Greek) are participating in. In the past, we have participated in campus Talent Shows (we usually win too :D) and things as well. We do a service project with the Girl Scouts, etc etc. So we DO do things, but the problem is, even though sometimes we do as much as social GLOS, since our membership is smaller, we aren't as well recognized...and aren't seen as Greek or "as Greek as social GLOs". Is this fair? No.

Am I making sense here? Anyone agree(or disagree)?

Curious to see you guys' thoughts on this. :)

Oh oh, I didn't mean to sound like I think SAI and APO do nothing! I know that you have your philanthropies and things that you do, just like a social GLO would do.

But I'm saying that other than the APO Blood Drive, I don't hear much about them doing service work. I am NOT saying that SAI and APO do nothing, I am just saying that, like all GLOS, there are more... productive chapters and less productive chapters, and maybe that is the case at my school. Although that is not to say that they do nothing either, I just don't know what they do, because other than the Blood Drive, I don't hear much from them.

I think it would help if they publicized their work more? :confused: I don't know.

I hope I didn't offend anyone.

No not really.

I personally think of organizations like Sigma Alpha Iota as greek as I am in Zeta Tau Alpha for the simple par they take part in things like what social greeks on my campus do. They are involved in all of our homecoming and spring week activities and carry around the same things we do when it comes to our letters. Usally the ones my sisters and I don't really consider greek organizations are the orgainizations that don't carry around their letters like people in service greek letter organiztions like Delta Sigma Omicron or honor socities like Alpha Lambda Delta!

Here are my two cents. . .

I agree that it depends on the campus. My opinion stems from what has happened on my campus.

We have a huge, esteemed music school. I have friends in SAI, and yes, you basically HAVE to be a music major to get in because it is so prestigious (spelling?). However, Kappa Kappa Psi and TBS allows anyone to join if they are in any performing group. I almost joined TBS because when I came to campus I didn't want to join a social sorority. On my campus there is a HUGE difference!! I've noticed that my TBS friends actually don't like social greeks. It goes both ways. Being both a social greek and having a lot of ties to non-social I've seen that there are opinions flying ever which way.

Personally, I consider them to be greek, but I see that they are different than social greeks. BUT, I do know for a fact that a lot of non-social groups do have retreat, big/lil, and rituals. A lot of my Pi Phi sisters are in Kappa Psi, and boy are they loyal and take it to heart! Honestly guys, it's just what you put into it.

I don't want to offend anyone ...
But I would say, no, I don't consider you guys as Greeks.

Question:

Is there a difference between: Social, Professional, Service, or any Others!?

Yes There is!

Am a member of 2 and proudly so! LXA and APO, any problem with that?

But yes, there is a difference. But I feel that They are members of the Greek Community for the work and the Name that they use in reference to Greeks as we use them!

Not only is each Social Greek Different, but so is any other Greek Org!

If You did not understand this, do not contact the sender as will ignor you!:)

I can't grasp why just because a GLO isn't in the NPC, IFC, or NPHC, it isn't Greek. Anyone cares to elaborate why?

Actually, our nationals do not require us to be a music major. . . That particular chapter may require you to be a music major but it's not a national requirement. If that were a requirement, my chapter would probably only have 10 sisters out of the 40 we currently have. . . just wanted to set the record straight. :):):)

-Jessica:)

non-social GLOs
 

In APO we are expected to do service in four areas: Campus, Community, Nation, and the Fraternity itself. If you are not aware of other service projects this chapter does, its probably because they are probably not doing a good job of publicity.

For instance, the chapter I am involved in has done the Jerry Lewis Telethon for the past 3 years. The only way people on campus would be aware of this is if they: 1) watched the telethon and saw us in the studio taking calls or 2) read our articles or brochures where we mentioned this.

Michael Brown

It is different. The PFA is just an umbrella group, much like the NIC or the NPC, for professional GLOs or GLOs with a professional/disciplinary area/special interest background. Actually, the membership requirement in the PFA is rather broad: "To be eligible for membership, a fraternity shall be national or international in character and shall charter its institutional chapters only at appropriately accredited colleges, universities, or professional schools. The fraternity shall be identified by, or related to, a field of study or common interest." (Constitution of the PFA, Article III, "Membership," emphasis added.) The continued affiliation of SAI and Phi Mu Alpha with the PFA may (I'm just speculating here) be related to the desire to be part of some umbrella group, and this is the one that has fit best in the past. I understand that Phi Mu Alpha is considering membership in the NIC, but that hasn't happened yet, so the PFA I suppose fills the need for now. And as has been pointed out above, SAI is very unlikely to seek membership in the NPC. There may (again speculating) also be some historical sentimental hesistancy to break with the PFA, since I think both SAI and Sinfonia helped start it.

It's not the IRS, nor does it have anything to do with tax purposes. Title IX provides that any educational institution that shelters an organization that discriminates on the basis of sex can be denied federal funds. An exemption is made for social fraternal organizations. Both SAI and Phi Mu Alpha have received determinations from the US Department of Education that they are social fraternal organizations, hence their ability to remain single sex.

Exactly! This thread seems to go in circles:

"Yes, we are."
"No, you're not."
"Yes, they are."
"No, they're not."

The reality is that whether members of a "professional" GLO are considered "real Greeks" (whatever that means, exactly) will depend on how the members of that GLO act on the particular campus with which one is familiar. I have said before that I know of Sinfonia chapters that act like "professional fraternities," even though it has been 20 years since we decided to reject identification as a "professional fraternity" and return to our roots as a social fraternity. On such a campus, I would not be surprised to hear a member of an IFC-fraternity question Sinfonia's "greekness." (And I might question whether such a chapter needs a refresher course on Phi Mu Alpha. ;) ) On the other hand, I would be surprised to hear such questioning on a campus where Sinfonia is fully involved in the IFC.

The bottom line: it is impossible to resolve a question like this on a board like this, because people's experiences can be so different. The best we can hope for is an appreciation of how any given group sees itself and an understanding that the situation on our own campus may or may not represent the situation elsewhere.

Again, well said. Would that instead of putting all of this energy into decided who is a "real Greek," we put the energy into bettering our own GLO, improving the Greek system as a whole, and improving Greek perception among the non-Greek public (to whom distinctions like social and professional are meaningless).

To clarify what I said, "You basically have to be a music major to get in." I put basically in there to show that you don't HAVE to be a major. I have a friend who is in my major (not music) who is in SAI. I meant by my post that you have to be darned good to get in! :) :)

-Erin

I ask the same question.

What about that quote that says, "no matter the letter, we'll all Greek together?"

It doesn't say, "No matter the NPC, IFC, or NPHC letter..."

Need I say more?

Just my $2.50 on the matter...

I am a proud sister of SAI. I am a religion major, participate in University Chorale, Computer Consultants and Religious Awareness group. I am one of over 50 sisters in our chapter, Sigma Omega. I owe SAI my lifelong loyalty, and I consider my pledging experience, when held up to my other Greek friends' experiences, comperable.

We are a part of Greek life here. We do not participate in the formal rush week, however, to allow girls who would rather go social the opprotunity to decide if socials are right for them before having to accept or deny the SAI bid. This is out of courtesy, I believe, to the social sororities who conduct their pledging process on a much tighter schedule. It is also due to the fact that we are not a part of the Pan-hellenic council, despite overtures to be on it from us. They decline membership to us and Sinfonia, despite Sinfonia on my campus deciding to go social.

We have sisters who are members of Zeta, and we interact often with Zeta. Sinfonians are our brothers in music, and we also interact with Sig Ep, as they are considered the brothers of Zeta. I'm not sure if this is true of all campuses, but every sorority is paired with a fraternity here.

APhiO is not part of Greek life here. We have a chapter, but they are not included in Greek activities of any sort, and they only have one ritual, which is open--initiation.

All of these things have coloured my interpretation of SAI, my cherished sisterhood. I am loyal to SAI and her teachings, and my sisters are as dear to me as any could be. We are taught that we are to be recognised by members of other fraternities and sororities as "fellow Greeks" and this is all we ask. I understand that in some places SAI has a poor reputation, and I am saddened deeply by that. But here at SU, we are respected and recognised by our fellow Greeks, and it is wonderful to know that we are a part of a larger community, helping women who share our love and passion to be better women for it.

Think what you like about SAI, but know that on some campuses, in some chapters, we are as much sisters as women can be. We uphold our symphony and our ideals. I agree with my sister, sairose. Whatever the letter, we are Greek together.

Love and roses,

Emma

Emma, if the Sinfonians at your school want to join the IFC, you might suggest to them that they contact our HQ. They've worked to help other chapters join campus IFCs. Just a thought.

APhiO has 2 rituals, and they are NOT open. One is the Pledge Ceremony, the other the Initiation Ceremony. If the chapter on your campus is conducting the Initation Ceremony as an open ceremony, that's not proper as far as a I know.

APhiO chapters are typically not part of "Greek life" on most campuses, because "Greek life" is usually limited to the Social GLOs, which APhiO is not. APhiO is not part of any of the social GLO inter-fraternity groups.

Hope this helps

I consider you to be a Greek organization but unfortunately many girls in my chapter wouldn't. I think this is beacuse they haven't talken the time to learn about other organizations. I had one gilr in my chapter tell me BGLO's weren't "real."!!!!! Being black this uspet me bacuse several of my friends are Deltasand Zetas. A lot of girls in my house only consider on organization real if they have a house which really bothers me. They don't understand that with one little mistake we could have our house taken from us. Then would they not consider us a "real"org any more???


SxyDeltaGam
Delta Gamma
Beta Xi Chapter

Here's what I think
 

Professional and Social GLO's are different. Professional fraternities, like Delta Sigma Pi, are governed by the Professional Fraternity Associtation, not IFC. Also, in Delta Sigma Pi's risk management, it says that chapter houses are stongly discouraged for the reason that if the chapter has a house, it will compete with social fraternities. There are so many aspects to greek life for ANY GLO, be it professional or social, that there is no black and white on this issue. Yes, professional GLOs do social activities, we just don't party every weekend at other GLOs places, we have barndances, formals and other social activities. We have community service events at least 3 times a month. Someone commented on APO only do the blood drive. I'm sure they do more, it's just that their name isn't on everything or they aren't always advertising what they are doing by making shirts. I'm sure everyone in social GLOs knows what houses are doing what community service because if you're in the greek system you know what's going on. But on my campus, I could tell you because I'm not in a social GLO. Bottom line is that although there are differences, yes we are greeks. I had to pledge, go through initiation. I had a big bro. We have rituals at our meetings just like social GLOs do. The only BIG difference is that we don't have social functions every weekend.

That's what I think.

Dave

I stand by my statements earlier in this thread...

Greek like me?

I'll know it when I see it.

You can't make blanket statements like SAI is the same as a PHC group on EVERY campus. The fact is that these professional or whatever they are type groups vary from campus to campus and in some are even members of IFC/Panhellenic and in direct competition with IFC/PHC groups.

So... I'll know it when I see it.