Total is now 248 (Median chapter size) at Texas A&M another "less Greek" SEC school. I think if next year is as much of an increase as this year (209 to 248) the talks will have to begin regarding expansion.
Housing is going to be an issue but there is a fraternity house on "the row" that could be a spot for a new sorority house if they were willing (at a price of course) to relocate.

Wasn't East Carolina a campus where all the houses looked alike and were all built at the same time? Or did they move away from that after either the turn of the millennium or some weather disaster?

Are you thinking of Elon?

SPSU in Georgia is also like that.

Never been to either campus, so you may have me there. What is the difference between sorority housing at each school?

No this wasn't ECU. Most sororities all came to campus at the same time but the houses looked quite different!

The biggest problem is the city rezoning homes for new groups. They like to make it more difficult than it needs to be.

Not to be silly, but at Elon all of the little houses look the same (similar)! The ECU houses are quite different.

Re Elon: The houses that were built in the early/mid 1990s look exactly the same and inside the houses are gorgeous: Hard word floors, spiral staircases, columns, etc. The houses that were built in the late 1990s and early 2000s look a little more doorm-ish: Linoleum, more suite-style. Luckily each organization gets to paint and decorate as they wish.
Each housing style has their pluses and minuses. The houses at ECU are each different.

Is retention an issue at ECU? With quota in the 70s, total of 154 seems low.

Speaking of Elon, I saw this article today. http://www.elonpendulum.com/2014/09/service-sisterhood/

It appears that Greek Life intends to educate PNMs about what sorority is life is really like and they believe this in turn may lower the number of PNMs going through recruitment this winter. I'll be watching this story to find out more, since the article seems to leave a lot out. As an Elon Alum, I'm surprised they are deciding to go this route over expansion since the number of undergrads keeps growing, which is increasing the numbers of PNMs going through recruitment. There are a few groups on campus who have a history of retention issues, but from what I know, those are for other reasons.

I think it's great that they are making sure women are better informed about academics and philanthropy, as relating to what sororities do, and that's it's not just one giant fraternity party (although social is definitely an aspect as well). However, I don't know if it will really cut down a significant number of girls going through recruitment. If the numbers support it, eventually expansion will have to be discussed.

Even if the New Information cuts down a bit on the number of registered participants, a greater-than-usual percentage of those then-registered may choose to stick with the program and pledge/initiate. So Elon may discover the same number of initiates from a lower number of PNMs.

Do PNMs at Elon typically receive written info on cost of dues and such? If not, it may be that they're going to do that and this is much ado about nothing. Or it might be an attempt to lower the amount of Greek students couched in "informing" and "helping." Things like this make my side-eye twitch.

They could also be getting a lot of grief because the girls go in all "unicorns pooping rainbows" and not understand study hours, philanthropy hours, mandatory meetings, etc. And we all know nobody wants to bring that up during a rush party. If a significant number of girls every year think it's all about frat parties, there could be a lot of disillusioned girls with a big ole expense they don't want.

The PNMs are given financials for each sorority, both before the recruitment convocation (kick off) and during the sisterhood round. I think after initiation, generally right around spring break, the new members realize the honey moon is over and there is a bug push for Thon, philanthropy events out the wazoo, Greek week and being told to keep their grades up comes as a bit of a shock to the system. Elon is running out of space for new Greek housing to be built and currently all houses are occupied. Also Elon generally tries to have NPC and IFC expansion around the same time. If the numbers continue to increase as they have for the past 5 years, even with the addition of KD in 2011, I think NPC will have to look to expand. I think total is 125, with the majority of groups over total and quota has consistently been in the 50s.

I don't think so? It could be for some chapters? From what I can see on here groups took anywhere from 59-72. From what I can tell the total of 154 is fairly recent as well. The system is just growing so fast there I think they are working hard to figure out what total needs to be. At least one chapter is well above that at 182.

Another one from the list has opened - Cal State San Marcos.

Not going through eleven pages of previous posts, so this may have been asked/answered:

At one time recently University of Wisconsin at Whitewater was open for sorority extension. Their Fall 2014 numbers would still seem to indicate expansion should any NPC group be interested. Is this campus "too far" from alum group help to be viable? And AFAIK their long-time local sorority group was NOT asking to be made NPC.

ETA: the local sorority's Fall 2014 NM number from FB listing is 35. DZ got 37 and Tri Sigma took 29 (from IP's fantastic GC list).

I can't speak to attitudes of specific groups, of course, but it's less than an hour from Whitewater to Madison and just an hour from Whitewater to Milwaukee. Any sorority that's been at UW-Madison for a long time will have lots of alumni in those two cities. It's also a part of the country where people don't think that much of an hour's drive. This campus doesn't present the kind of logistical challenge or expense of, say, Northern Michigan University.

We have a goodly amount of alums from other WI ex-teachers colleges as well as this one, but I think that for right now we're focused on an impending colony that REALLY needs to go well and other newer chapters. Better conservative than biting off too much.

I was on the expansion committee as an alumna (past advisory board member) before I moved out of the country. Only one organization submitted a packet and presented. It did not seem to be a fit at the time. I personally don't think the campus is ready. Quota had been around 50 for a few years and only in the 30's this year. I think quota in the 30's is a good number for this campus. All chapters tend to have spring recruitments with around 15-10 new members as they fall below total. I believe the houses hold 30-40 women and seem to have trouble filling them from time to time. If you would like to have a conversation via PM, please let me know. I can give more background that probably doesn't need to be out everywhere.

This is a good explanation of why expansion is not necessarily a good choice based on formal numbers alone. If they are setting total after formal and yet ALL chapters are taking that many in the spring AND they're having trouble filling the house with just over half a pledge class, they have a lot of work to do before bringing anyone else to the party.

I have only seen the houses from the outside, but the DZ and AS houses, at least, are single-family homes. Tri-Sigma's house is bigger, with about 25 beds. http://royalpurplenews.com/?p=13527

Please tell me more about a chapter I have personally advised as I must be totally wrong. :rolleyes:

I was one of the CAB members for Tri Sigma for a few years and have been in the house many times. There may be 25 living in the house in the Spring because of singles paying more or the live outs paying more in parlor fees.

The Delta Zeta house may look like a normal house from front but it is not much smaller than Tri Sigma.

Alpha Sigma is more of a traditional family style home but still on the larger side.

The PHC needs to start evaluating total after formal every year as this would limit spring informal. Spring informal often times has quota set also. It would help greatly if they started using RFM. They still hand bid match. I think they might had more interest for presentations if they had a detailed past 3 years of recruitment statistics. In the past, women have gone unmatched even when maximizing options. NPC made several recommendations to the campus which have not been implemented.

<removed> I decided it was not nice/fair to post some details

You advised all three chapters? Maybe DZ put on an addition since I saw the house, or they have an annex. They've got some lax fire codes in that county if 30+ women live in the house I saw (it's gorgeous and I was admiring it, so I went all the way around, viewing it from every angle). It looks the same on Google Earth as when I was there last.

Am I the only one who thinks it's a little strange for non-members to be walking around chapter houses studying them from every angle?

Fans of Victorian architecture are strange? Guilty, then. I do this with lots of beautiful buildings. I'm often taking pictures, too. Total sucker for a good Queen Anne over here. Bring on the wooden lace, gables, turrets, dormers, etc.

I don't find being a fan of architecture to be strange. Rather I find it strange that someone would be walking around and photographing a house on private property, especially one housing ~25 young females.

If someone was walking around my house photographing it, you can be damn sure I'd be uneasy about it. Likewise if there were people walking around and photographing a house of a chapter I advise.... you can guarantee I would be reporting it to campus police/ security asap.

Before this escalates like whoH

Is UW-W appreciably larger than the other UW-insert town here schools or are these much larger totals and quotas a random anomaly?

I wonder if the issues with NPC and RFM had something to do with groups not submitting packets (more than geography). Also, competing with a local that allows boys and booze? Not enticing.

And very old locals in that neck of the woods tend to have very involved alumnae and very deep pockets (which I'm sure goes for school donations as well).

You just have to learn how to deal with it and what does and doesn't work.

They're comparable to the other large schools in the system (La Crosse, Eau Claire, Oshkosh). I don't know why total is set so high when all the sororities seem to have trouble meeting it.

At least when I was attending a school not too far away ten years ago, Whitewater was seen as, uh, a difficult campus. That may have changed by now, but if it hasn't, it isn't surprising that the NPC groups would be reluctant to take that on.

I wasn't on private property. The house is on a corner, and all four sides are visible from the public sidewalk. Feel free to report me if you see me. In fact, I'm going to be in Tuscaloosa for a game this fall, so that's a great opportunity to try to get me in trouble if you like. Though it may be hard to spot me -- I have a feeling that crowds of people will be admiring/photographing those amazing houses around the stadium. I want to get some shots of the historic ones that are going to be torn down in the next year or two.

People who live in beautiful or architecturally important buildings generally have to get used to tourists admiring or photographing the place. That was certainly true of my freshman dorm -- we had some architecture students from Germany who'd made a pilgrimage to see our campus one time.

Sorry Low D Flat but, I'm gonna' have to go with sigmagirl2000 on this one. If someone was walking around taking pictures of the sorority house where I help advise, I'd be pretty creeped out and also call the police. Though architecture is very interesting, you still have to think about it from the perspective of the young women living inside--especially in this day and age after that guy in CA went on his rampage against sorority women.

Next one from the list, LSU has opened

So

Alabama - still open?
LSU
FIU
Belmont
Cal State - San Marcos
Texas Tech
Florida
Northern Arizona
North Georgia
Nevada - Reno

have all opened since this thread was started. Pretty on point predictions.

^ Those would be EXACTLY my thoughts, too.
Although I may be close geographically, I really know very little about how stuff functions at Whitewater, so I defer to Sassmofi, or others with more local, recent experience.
I would say, though, that the region should have enough alumnae in the area, with both Madison & Milwaukee nearby.
It was always my (again, no personal experience) impression that the university needed a bit more structure/NPC oversight/adherence to unanimous agreements for the system to be more healthy. But, again, just the impression I got.
Looking strictly at their pledge class sizes, I think that puts them about even with UW-Milwaukee and UW-Oshkosh (those three being the schools behind only Marquette and Madison in class sizes).

I would argue that the University of Rhode Island should open for sorority expansion soon if it's not already in the works. Quota last year was 35 but jumped up to 53 this year, and the houses are not large enough to hold that many girls. The year before that quota was 29. A chapter was closed and then a new one opened, so they're back up to the same number of chapters in years past, but it seems as though both interest and the placement rate have gone up. They've had three groups colonize in the past five years now but the numbers are only getting larger.

One issue is housing-groups without permanent housing plans are seen at a large disadvantage to those with permanent housing, and plenty of fraternities are willing to rent their houses to sororities while they are suspended but not sell them outright. I can think of several alumni associations that would be thrilled to have a local chapter in a state with limited Greek Life presence, but not having solid housing would put them behind the eight ball.

I'd created a list on my own last year and about 7-8 of them ended up opening up, so I'm ready to put down my guesses in public so I can point to them later and say, "See! I was right!" :)
These are all purely on numbers, as I don't have any idea about housing or other situations at these schools. Also, some might need a few years, but if the growth were to continue...

Auburn University ('14 Q=72, '13 Q=60, '12 Q=58, '11 Q=62). Last colonization was Theta in 2009

Jacksonville State ('14 Q=29, '13 Q=28, '12 Q=22, '11 Q=21)

Samford ('14 Q=70?, '13 Q=65?, '12 Q=48?)

Troy ('14 Q=60?, '13 Q=54, '12 Q=39, '11 Q=41)

University of North Alabama ('14 Q=35?, '13 Q=32?, '12 Q=27)

University of South Alabama ('14 Q=39?, '13 Q=35, '12 Q=26?, '11 Q=24)

Arkansas State University ('14 Q=46?, '13 Q=41, '12 Q=43, '11 Q=34) Zeta Tau Alpha colonized in 2012

University of Central Arkansas ('14 Q=58?, '13 Q=50?, '12 Q=25?)

California State University- Fresno ('14 Q=37?, '13 Q=31?, '12 Q=30?, '11 Q=23)

California State University- Fullerton ('14 Q=73?, '13 Q=69, '12 Q=56)

California State University- Long Beach ('14 Q=61?, '13 Q=49, '12 Q=40, '11 Q=36)

UC Davis ('14 Q=50?, '13 Q=34, '12 Q=48, '11 Q=38)

University of San Francisco (No quota, but '14=50-60, '13=37?) Only 2 NPCs, Kappa Alpha Theta colonized in 2011

Stetson University ('14 Q=38?, '13 Q=33?, '12 Q=28?, '11 Q=22)

University of North Florida ('14 Q=73? '13 Q=67?, '12 Q=55?, '11 Q=52)

Georgia Tech ('14 Q=50, '13 Q=45, '12 Q=45, '11 Q=44)

Georgia Southern ('14 Q=72?, '13 Q=59?, '12 Q=62?, '11 Q=60)

Georgia Southwestern State ('14 Q=34, '13 Q=17?)

Georgia State ('14 Q=31, '13 Q=23, '12 Q=21

University of Hawai'i at Manoa ('14 Q=28, '13 Q=20, '12 Q=17)

Ball State University ('14 Q=48?, '13 Q=49?, '12 Q=39, '11 Q=30)

Butler University ('14 Q=52?, '13 Q=53, '12 Q=41)

University of Kansas ('14 Q=65, '13 Q=56, '12 Q=44, '11 Q=44)

Washburn University ('14 Q=30?, '13 Q=23, '12 Q=15, '11 Q=19)

Bellarmine University ('14 Q=26, '13 Q=20) One NPC

Eastern Kentucky ('14 Q=25, '13 Q=22, '12 Q=20, '11 Q=17)

University of Kentucky ('14 Q=90, '13 Q=82, '12 Q=65, '11 Q=58) Phi Mu colonized in 2011

Western Kentucky ('14 Q=51, '13 Q=43, '12 Q=32, '11 Q=39) Alpha Xi Delta colonized in 2012

Louisiana Tech ('14 Q=59, '13 Q=44?)

Nicholls State ('14 Q=48?, '13 Q=44, '12 Q=43, '11 Q=37)

University of Louisiana at Monroe ('14 Q=40, '13 Q=36?, '12 Q=37, '11 Q=26)

Salisbury University ('14 Q=40?, '13 Q=31?)

Towson University ('14 Q=40?, '13 Q=31?)

Western Michigan ('14 Q=31?, '13 Q=20, '12 Q=15)

University of Minnesota- Duluth ('14 Q=55, '13 Q=47+24)

Delta State ('14 Q=30?, '13 Q=31?, '12 Q=21? '11 Q=18)

Missouri University of Science & Tech ('14 Q=41, '13 Q=23, '12 Q=27, '11 Q=27)

University of Central Missouri ('14 Q=31, '13 Q=30, '12 Q=24, '11 Q=22)

Princeton University ('14 Q=55?, '13 Q=49?, '12 Q=15?)

Ohio University: ('14 Q=56?, '13 Q=38, '12 Q=37?)

Northeastern State University ('14 Q=34?, '13 Q=18, '12 Q=12, '11 Q=17)

Linfield College ('14 Q=36?, '13 Q=29, '12 Q=?, '11 Q=25)

University of Pittsburgh ('14 Q=31, '13 Q=26, '12 Q=21?, '11 Q=20)

East Tennessee State University ('14 Q=50?, '13 Q=37?, '12 Q= 26?)

University of Memphis ('14 Q=42?, '13 Q=41?, '12 Q=31?, '11 Q=23)

University of Tennessee ('14 Q=60?, '13 Q=48, '12 Q=52, '11 Q=46)

Lamar University ('14 Q=25?, '13 Q=22?, '12 Q=13?)

Midwestern State ('14 Q=24, '13 Q=23, '12 Q=16, '11 Q=17)

Stephen F. Austin State ('14 Q=48?, '13 Q=45, '12 Q=41, '11 Q=39)

Texas A&M ('14 Q=85?, '13 Q=67?, '12 Q=55, '11 Q=52)

University of Utah ('14 Q=51?, '13 Q=38, '12 Q=31?)

West Virginia University: ('14 Q=50, '13 Q=55, '12 Q=38?, '11 Q=25)

I just found out from my little sister that NAU is open for expansion. Presentations are in the spring I believe. Phi Mu, Alpha Xi Delta and Kappa Delta will be presenting. I'm hoping Phi Mu is chosen as I think it would be awesome to have a Phi Mu chapter in AZ.