I agree that disposing of bed rush would resolve the issue, but my understanding is that pretty much would take an act of Congress (and we know how well that works these days!), hence my musings.

Amen. Took the words right out of my mouth

We tried a split recruitment in the past, with then 19 party being around Halloween and then the rest of recruitment after Christmas, and then 19 party moved to just after Thanksgiving. There's just not much of a good solution, unfortunately. They moved 21 party to post-Christmas for academic reasons, and now everyone is up their rears because of this situation. Can't win

Last year there was a pnm at IU who ended up joining one of the unhoused sororities after some reluctance. I can't locate the thread since I'm on my phone, but it is out there if someone does a search.
And fwiw, I don't think this is a deferred recruitment problem. Many campuses have deferred recruitment and do just fine. I think this grueling schedule, quick reduction in the number of parties and bed quota is an Indiana problem.

There are a number of schools -- particularly with the recent explosion of expansions -- where there are housed and unhoused and "underhoused" chapters. There are chapters with dorm floors and chapters on the same campus without. There are chapters where the pathway to competitive housing is pretty striaghtforward and where it is not. Almost every -- if not all -- NPC groups have chapters where the housing situation is not optimal, but all of them work hard to ensure a vibrant, quality experience for their members. It's hard, but if 18 year-olds can just look past the physical housing ...

IUH88 -- why can't 21 be moved back to October? I can see the challenge of Nov/Dec parties. Or -- and I am opening Pandora's box -- is there a reason IU can't move to August recruitment ?

While I see the irony, I also see the hurt and disappointment. My daughter is going to finish the process with an open mind and give the three sororities another look. Too bad she doesn't have a chance to give the sororities at the top of a list another look at her.

If housing wasn't what it is at IU perhaps they could, but when you have 19 out of 21 sororities requiring their members to live in their houses for 2 if not 3 years, it's hard not to look past not having a house.

Although the weather is no one's fault, the revised schedule was not optimal and did a huge disservice to all involved. Everyone can say it's hard on the actives, but they're already in a house and they're self-esteem isn't taking a hit.

No true reason we can't move to August recruitment, other than that we use grade cuts as a way to narrow down the large PNM pool (unless I'm forgetting something). But excluding that as an option...

Oct 21 party with post-Xmas: you then have 3 months between when PNMs first meet actives and they have to come back again. Definitely wasn't an ideal situation, and created many opportunities for dirty rushing.

Personally, I think the best option is to go back to the split of 21 pre-Xmas and the rest post-Xmas, but put 21 party the weekend (or 2, depending on football) before Thanksgiving that way you avoid the dead week issue.

Thanks. Maybe Panhell will consider the prior arrangement you described. : )

Are there any dorms that could be taken over by the newer chapters as housing?

And we come full circle to bed rush. : / August recruitment seems that it could work (and deferred recruitment work better) if the PNM pool did not have to be dramatically reduced.

Sorry for the long post / vent...

After hearing horror stories from other parents and thoroughly reading this and other forums, I thought my daughter and I were both prepared for the hell that is Sorority Recruitment, and especially IU Sorority Recruitment (even without the weather-induced schedule changes). She knew she would need to keep an open mind, and she knew that the process would likely end up in disappointment.

But when I talked to her last night she was so excited and so positive about how things went at 12-party, and I couldn't help getting excited for her, and I encouraged her excitement. She told me details of conversations and it sounded like she had really made a deep connection in a short amount of time - in one conversation both she and the Active teared up over a common bond they discussed. At another sorority, as she was leaving the Active said "we really hope you will consider us".

Then came the phone call this morning - hysterical sobs. Her situation is a bit different from most of the posts this morning - she did get matched with one sorority she really liked, but we both know that she has about a 0.01% chance of actually getting a bid from them (having to do with religion ;) ). The other matches were her bottom two. We both thought we were prepared for this, but yesterday was just so positive that she got her hopes up for her two favorite sororities (she's a legacy at both), so the disappointment this morning was huge. I know, I know, we were warned. It's to be expected. It's just so darn hard :,( She says she will keep an open mind about one of the bottom two, but the other one she just felt no connection with anyone she talked to. I encouraged her to keep an open mind about all three.

Which brings me to a question… I've seen many suggestions that the girls should list all of their pref round chapters on their MRABA. But isn't that silly if you just didn't feel any connection to one or two of the sororities? I guess that's up to each PNM to decide - whether being in any sorority is better than no sorority. And then there's the DPhiE colonization that complicates things. The expansion is positive and exciting, but many girls will have a tough choice on Tuesday - do I accept a bid from a sorority where I don't feel that "connection" or do I take my chances with DPhiE? I know this will be a factor in my daughters decision and I have no idea which way she'll go.

My daughter is lucky to have a very sweet roommate. When she called me sobbing this morning, I could hear her roommate in the background, consoling her. But her roommate, who was going through recruitment just for the experience and didn't plan to join a sorority, got matched with two of her favorites. I can picture the scene on Tuesday night. I think you know what I'm talking about...

I did read some of your posts to her this morning, and I think they made her feel a bit better. Thank you for that! She pulled herself together and hopefully was able to get rid of the puffy eyes before her first party.

I really can't complain about the last-minute change in the recruitment schedule. They had to make a decision very quickly about how to handle the weather situation, and I don't think there were any good options. It definitely was grueling and far from ideal, but I don't see how it would give one PNM an advantage over another. I really can't complain about how sorority recruitment works in general - it is a hard, ego-crushing process at any university. But I CAN complain about IU's unique bed-quota system. It is a blemish on an otherwise outstanding university. I know it can't be changed overnight, but I really wish the chapters would consider at least gradually increasing their pledge class sizes and allowing more live-outs. I think the benefits would FAR outweigh the disadvantages for everyone.

And to the sorority where the Active said "we really hope you will consider us" and then didn't ask her back, that bothers me - why would they say that when they don't intend to consider you?

Thanks for listening to my vent :)

The point is that a physical building does not make a group a sorority. Sisterhood, and all the things that go along with it, make it so. We understand the differences between campuses, but just because you think these chapters are "more like clubs," doesn't mean that they are.

In some cases, they may have a stronger chapter and sisterhood than the housed sororities.

(sorry I'm just jumping into this convo.. I've been on vacation and I'm trying to catch up! :) )

I am posting ftom my cell so please forgive the typos. I am out of town but wanted to make a few breif comments. First to any PNMs and PNM moms, yes this is abrutal process but the hurt will pass. I know it is not ideal, but until the IU Panhellenic votes for chamge, all points about bed rush amd party structure are moot. Also, the two unhoused chapters were.given the option to have dorm floors somewhere but they turned it down. They did not want that. IU plans to add.mpte chapters, as they do there will be more unhoused chapters, so it be such an oddity.

If you know this isn't true, you shouldn't be lamenting your daughter getting pref invitations to chapters without houses. She may be disappointed, but you know that she can have a good experience in an unhoused group.

I'm sorry for your daughter and the other PNMs. The system at IU is painful.

Quote: And to the sorority where the Active said "we really hope you will consider us" and then didn't ask her back, that bothers me - why would they say that when they don't intend to consider you?"


I don't feel qualified to speak to your other concerns, but as to this - the active may very well have been very enthusiastic about your daughter, but the chapter as a whole didn't share her opinion. Chapters always have to cut girls they may wish to consider, but the numbers simply mean they have to cut.

I hope your daughter has a happy outcome. The biggest question for her is - would she rather not be Greek at all rather than consider a sorority which she may not yet "feel a connection", but which believes her to be a good fit?

Good luck.

I am picturing alums and actives of the IU sororities sitting back and congratulating themselves on their special snowflake situation and snottily telling the administration and NPC, "Sorry, we're unique and this is how we do it."

And then years later, their daughters get cut from recruitment.

I asked an IU alum about it and she said that she knows that recruitment is awful, she can't imagine having a system where the chapter members don't live in the house for all of college. She was adamant that she didn't want a system where some members could only live in the house for a year or two years.

And she's familiar with the pain of having a legacy cut. Her sister was cut from their legacy chapter at Arkansas, despite my friend, her older sister, and her mom all being in the same GLO.

If being in a GLO is that important, don't go to IU.

This. As much as I know the system is awful, I don't want a system where only one PC lives in

In most systems I know of, at least 2 pledge classes live in with a fair amount of upperclassmen too.

I know about bed rush too. Arkansas still had it when I rushed and maybe 1/3 of the rushees were able to get bids. This created major anti-Greek animosity for decades and cost the system hundreds of fabulous women every year. Yes, hundreds.

The current system provides the best possible experience for the members, according to my friend. The cost, though, is that it provides a terrible experience for a lot of PNMs.

I think your entire post was fair, and well-thought out, and I think most would agree that IU is a special, unique, and frustrating snowflake.

To respond to what I've quoted above: I completely agree about the live-outs. I can only give my fairly unknowledgeable opinion about their entire process, but I wouldn't be surprised if some girls are turned off from the idea of sorority life entirely because they may be required to live in a house, and that's a shame.

But that's all that is - my opinion. Of course, the people who have been immersed in the system may have a different one, and may understand things about living in at IU that I don't. So that's all I'll say about that.

As for what was said to your daughter - keep in mind that only ONE sorority member said this to her. Even if that one sister LOVED your daughter, I can almost guarantee that she's not the only one with a say in who is chosen for membership.

Who's up for using this as their new GC siggy?

And: when IU added three new NPC groups they gave OVER 350 ADDITIONAL WOMEN the opportunity to become well-rounded students and leaders for life. Greek membership MEANS SOMETHING to these 350+ women. HOUSING was not their issue when they joined, MEANINGFUL SISTERHOOD prevailed.

Like!

Very good point, thanks! I will share this with my daughter.

Please remind your daughters to look at the pnms at each party they attend today too because those girls could be their potential sisters. They forms substantial bonds in their pledge classes in every house they find girls they truly connect with! It just happens and usually within the first two weeks of being a new member. Even at bid day!

To the IUmoms: I am so sorry that your daughters are disappointed. All we moms want is for our children to be happy. But......if they are able to put that disappointment aside today, they may find happiness in a chapter where they did not expect to. You all advised your daughters to go in with an open mind and heart and give each chapter they will see today a chance. If you are able to speak to them before they sign their bid cards, you might remind them that here on GC we have read several rush stories where the PNM accepted a bid somewhat reluctantly, but did accept it, and over time, they came to love and cherish the sisterhood they joined. It really can happen, but sometimes those PNMs must sort of make it through their first year, and the second year, as they work with their sisters preparing for recruitment, homecoming and other big events on campus, it clicks for them and they are sold: ABC was the right place for me after all.

And to the mom whose daughter is considering DPhiE: If her heart leads her there, then she should go through their recruitment. Being a member of a colony is a very special opportunity.

Where to begin...here we are again, another year of IU rush and broken hearts. I advise at my chapter at Purdue (NOT a recruitment advisor!). The houses at Purdue do allow live outs and uses the formula like every other campus (I forget what its called) to set the pledge calls quota for all houses. From my point of view, it works just fine. I don't get the obsession with having all members live in the house all years. Granted , my sorority experience was 30 years ago but by the time I was a senior, I was kind of done with communal living. It didn't mean I didn't love my chapter and still wanted to participate, but living in an apt didn't sound too bad but I didn't even have that option. As an advisor, I am keenly aware this has to be controlled because the fact is you have to have a full house to financially make it.

Today's collegians have so many different family situations, opportunities, etc that it seems prudent for sorority systems to be flexible. Plus not using bed quota offers so many more women the opportunity to participate, which I think is a GOOD thing.

IMO, this culture at IU makes no sense to me, it seems very old school and back ward thinking. I don't mean this to be demeaning to anyone that went to IU, I just don't understand why it wouldn't seem more desirable to have a system that expands opportunities.

VERY good point!!!!

THIS.

How strict are the chapter's GPA requirements? My daughter knows a few PNMs who do not have the minimum GPA requirement set by houses they have been invited back to today. Why invite them back when others with the required GPA have been cut?

What percentage of PNMs usually get bids at IU? And I'm also wondering what % drop out before initiation.

They shouldn't be asked back if they don't make the GPA. I know our recruitment advisors were super strict on that even to the point that girls got cut who had grades but if we needed to cut say another 30 girls then the bottom 30 GPA were the ones to get cut. I remember someone's best friend got cut by our advisors and we had no say we didn't even know it until we got our list and she wasn't on it.

Thank you. I wish it was different. Lamenting isn't the right word. I am angry at a system that intentionally disenfranchises hundreds of girls. I was upset and concerned about it even before recruitment, but yes now it's personal unfortunately, so I am seeing the damage done first hand.

I can't really compare my experience with the IU unhoused sororities because we did live together on campus. It wasn't a traditional house, but we were together on our dorm floor, were given chapter rooms and decorating freedom by our university. Being together was essential to the experience. It was also the norm on my campus. Each campus is unique.

So you're right in a sense that it's not the "house" that makes the sorority close, but having that common place to go to and hang out, day after day, whether it be in a house or a dorm is a good thing.

I think it's about a 65 percentage get placed. If there is roughly 1500 or 1600 I think about 900 to 1000 get placed this accounts for those who drop out of rush, those who don't make grades and those who go bid less. With the newly added sororities it may be a bit higher now

GPA requirements are strict--the PNMs your D knows may have a higher GPA than she thinks. Rarely, rarely, rarely will someone like a strong legacy or total superstar make it through to bid day with a GPA below requirements

No, she is absolutely sure of at least one of the PNM's GPAs as they completed their bid cards together.

I am so sorry for your daughter......it makes me very sad. I went through IU rush last year with my step daughter and it was brutal....she ended up very happy in the house she wanted but I have emphasized to her as much as possible how fortunate she was.....

Thank you for your sentiment.

The school that I went to didn't have chapter houses. However, we had an "unofficial house" off campus where we always had at least 4 girls living, and anyone could go in and out. We also had an apartment on campus with the same set-up.

I know this stings right now, but if your daughter ends up in an unhoused chapter, it won't be the end of the world. The sisters will find ways to hang out with each other (and probably already have). Life is full of disappointments and if your daughter's only disappointment is that she won't live in a sorority house, things could be worse.

What she should focus on is whether or not she wants to be a part of a sisterhood. If not having a house is a deal breaker for her, then that's her decision and hers alone to make. But she needs to keep in mind that she may lose out on a lifetime of sisterhood because she couldn't live in a sorority house for 2-3 years. Try to keep her looking at the big picture.

Again, I know that's difficult now. But this is actually a much bigger decision than she may realize. She should take all the time she's been given to make it.

I feel for you all! And the situation sucks… but it is what it is.