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-   -   How insulting is Colored (vs. African American) (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=106068)

DrPhil 07-03-2009 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanthus (Post 1822700)
True, but I'm speaking of those who are born in this country or have gained citizenship. They're all Americans.

What does that have to do with this topic?

LOL @ VUG1. It's the utopia that has yet to exist.

Xanthus 07-03-2009 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1822710)
What does that have to do with this topic?

This topic is always an issue. When you go to Great Britain or Germany etc, you don't see African German, or African Brit etc. The people over there are known as British or German. Why can't it be like that here?

MysticCat 07-03-2009 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanthus (Post 1822715)
This topic is always an issue. When you go to Great Britain or Germany etc, you don't see African German, or African Brit etc. The people over there are known as British or German. Why can't it be like that here?

Welcome to the melting pot/salad bowl/whatever metaphor works for you.

And no, you don't see African Germans or African Brits -- but you very likely well may see an attitude of Brits/Germans and "immigrants" (Turks, Pakistanis, take your pick), even if the "immigrants'" families have been there for a few generations.

DaemonSeid 07-03-2009 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VUG1 (Post 1822698)
and we love eachother.

Really?

DrPhil 07-03-2009 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanthus (Post 1822715)
This topic is always an issue. When you go to Great Britain or Germany etc, you don't see African German, or African Brit etc. The people over there are known as British or German. Why can't it be like that here?

It's not like that in Germany, either. Germany also has racial and ethnic distinctions. Ever notice that not all Germans speak German or that it isn't everyone's native language, for instance?

LOL...there is also a distinction between Germany as a nationality and German as a European ethnicity. Almost every society that has racial and/or ethnic diversity of any sort has ways of distinguishing groups from one another.

This topic isn't about nationality.

Xanthus 07-04-2009 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1822725)
Welcome to the melting pot/salad bowl/whatever metaphor works for you.

And no, you don't see African Germans or African Brits -- but you very likely well may see an attitude of Brits/Germans and "immigrants" (Turks, Pakistanis, take your pick), even if the "immigrants'" families have been there for a few generations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1822766)
It's not like that in Germany, either. Germany also has racial and ethnic distinctions. Ever notice that not all Germans speak German or that it isn't everyone's native language, for instance?

LOL...there is also a distinction between Germany as a nationality and German as a European ethnicity. Almost every society that has racial and/or ethnic diversity of any sort has ways of distinguishing groups from one another.

This topic isn't about nationality.

I agree with both of these posts. A friend of mine was in the Marines and was stationed in Germany for two years, and he said the same thing. However, he did say he didn't see the color barrier like he sees it over here. It's not going to be a perfect country, but I think we will be moving in the right direction by getting rid of the "African American", "Asian American", "Native American" etc... on the legal forms/placement exams etc....

moe.ron 07-04-2009 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanthus (Post 1822992)
I agree with both of these posts. A friend of mine was in the Marines and was stationed in Germany for two years, and he said the same thing. However, he did say he didn't see the color barrier like he sees it over here.

There's definately a color barrier there. It's just hidden better and they just don't talk about it. It's more open and freely discussed in the US. Just ask anybody from Turkey about the color barriers.

Xanthus 07-04-2009 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moe.ron (Post 1823001)
There's definately a color barrier there. It's just hidden better and they just don't talk about it. It's more open and freely discussed in the US. Just ask anybody from Turkey about the color barriers.

Technically, the color barrier is everywhere, but here it's taken to another level. I'll use Russia as an example. Over there, especially when it was the Soviet Union, it was more status based. I have a friend who lived there when it was the USSR changed over to just Russia. He said it was a drastic change, but he didn't see a color issue because it just wasn't there. I'm sure if it would have they would probably have the same problem. Here, I believe it's taken further though. I'm sure Turkey is like that also, I know India is. Nothern Indians have a lighter complexion than Southern Indian, or the other way around. I keep forgetting. But I know there is a big color barrier there. In the U.S. there are too many labels.

DrPhil 07-04-2009 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanthus (Post 1822992)
I agree with both of these posts. A friend of mine was in the Marines and was stationed in Germany for two years, and he said the same thing. However, he did say he didn't see the color barrier like he sees it over here. It's not going to be a perfect country, but I think we will be moving in the right direction by getting rid of the "African American", "Asian American", "Native American" etc... on the legal forms/placement exams etc....

The selective observations of a Marine stationed in Germany for two years mean absolutely nothing. ;)

Arguably, both America and Germany are no where near getting rid of those categories in everyday life and on forms and exams. We don't need to, either. People confuse social equality and nationalism with a need for being "color blind" or erasing any distinctions between people. We can reduce discrimination and inequality without pretending that we're all the same people holding hands in the sunlight. The need for the false utopia is what I consider to be a 2 year old child's concept of social life. :)

DrPhil 07-04-2009 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tired Black Man (Post 1823005)
And before I get started, you try this shit with me and I will beat the hell out of you with an extension cord. You hear me?

^^^ A poor attempt at a racial parody.

christiangirl 07-04-2009 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tired Black Man (Post 1823005)
And before I get started, you try this shit with me and I will beat the hell out of you with an extension cord. You hear me?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1823038)
^^^ A poor attempt at a racial parody.

Even so, I actually did just wince at a particulary bad memory...

Out of curiosity, have threads like this been started regarding any other races and their label preferences? Can anyone recall one? Because I can't even remember having a conversation let alone a debate about this when it's someone else's race.

knight_shadow 07-04-2009 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christiangirl (Post 1823060)
Even so, I actually did just wince at a particulary bad memory...

Out of curiosity, have threads like this been started regarding any other races and their label preferences? Can anyone recall one? Because I can't even remember having a conversation let alone a debate about this when it's someone else's race.

I don't remember seeing any threads. They usually get thrown into the "black" threads. It's weird, though, because I've listened in on "Hispanic vs Latino" (and even "Asian vs Oriental") debates IRL.

33girl 07-04-2009 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1823037)
People confuse social equality and nationalism with a need for being "color blind" or erasing any distinctions between people. We can reduce discrimination and inequality without pretending that we're all the same people holding hands in the sunlight. The need for the false utopia is what I consider to be a 2 year old child's concept of social life. :)

This is probably the best summation of that particular point I have ever read. Some people still don't understand that Brown vs. Board of Ed was about getting equal educational opportunities with schools that had actually been updated since the 1920s - not about "pleeeease give me the privilege of sitting in class with white people!"

rhoyaltempest 07-04-2009 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1823099)
This is probably the best summation of that particular point I have ever read. Some people still don't understand that Brown vs. Board of Ed was about getting equal educational opportunities with schools that had actually been updated since the 1920s - not about "pleeeease give me the privilege of sitting in class with white people!"

Exactly. There is absolutely nothing wrong with celebrating different cultures, ethnicities, and races; however, there is something wrong with being intolerant of our differences.

DSTRen13 07-04-2009 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1823064)
I don't remember seeing any threads. They usually get thrown into the "black" threads. It's weird, though, because I've listened in on "Hispanic vs Latino" (and even "Asian vs Oriental") debates IRL.

You know, IRL, I've definitely heard the Hispanic/Latino conversation way more often.

christiangirl 07-04-2009 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1823064)
I don't remember seeing any threads. They usually get thrown into the "black" threads. It's weird, though, because I've listened in on "Hispanic vs Latino" (and even "Asian vs Oriental") debates IRL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSTRen13 (Post 1823135)
You know, IRL, I've definitely heard the Hispanic/Latino conversation way more often.

Okay, I've never had an Asian vs. Oriental debate per se...more like someone will say, "the Orientals" and someone else will correct them. But Hispanic vs. Latino I haven't heard before. The argument against calling anyone who speaks Spanish a "Mexican person," now THAT one I hear a lot. I'm always surprised at how many people don't understand that not everyone who speaks Spanish is not from Mexico--or even that no one in this world speaks "Mexican." :rolleyes: Quite as many who don't get that not all black people have direct heritage from African or that people who live in African do not speak "African." :rolleyes::rolleyes:)

Psi U MC Vito 07-04-2009 11:54 PM

Well striclly speaking Mexican SPanish counts as it's own dialect. and I remember a comedian joked about it. Depending what part of the country you are in, a latino is automattically a certain race. NY= Puerto Rican, Florida= Cuban, Cali= Mexican.

knight_shadow 07-04-2009 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christiangirl (Post 1823138)
Okay, I've never had an Asian vs. Oriental debate per se...more like someone will say, "the Orientals" and someone else will correct them. But Hispanic vs. Latino I haven't heard before. The argument against calling anyone who speaks Spanish a "Mexican person," now THAT one I hear a lot. I'm always surprised at how many people don't understand that not everyone who speaks Spanish is not from Mexico--or even that no one in this world speaks "Mexican." :rolleyes: Quite as many who don't get that not all black people have direct heritage from African or that people who live in African do not speak "African." :rolleyes::rolleyes:)

The conversations are usually spin-offs of the "Mexican vs ______" conversations. IIRC, Hispanic makes several people uncomfortable because of the Spain reference. I've seen more people using Latino in its place.

Troll Buster 07-05-2009 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tired Black Man (Post 1823005)
And before I get started, you try this shit with me and I will beat the hell out of you with an extension cord. You hear me?


Xanthus 07-05-2009 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1823040)
So, you prefer class, status and caste distinctions and hierarchies over race and ethnicity?

In racially and ethnically heterogeneous contexts, class, status and race intersect so much that they are almost interchangeable. Whether based on class, status, race and ethnicity, region, or complexion; the U.S. does not have more labels than other heterogeneous nations.

I don't know. It seems like the U.S. has more labels based on color than anything else. Class and status separation are everywhere, but placing someone in different categories based on race alone, seems to happen here more. I know people who have move here from other countries. They said race separation is looked at much more differently when compared to where they once lived. Great Britain and Germany. I'm not sure if I'm understanding what you're posting, but the way I'm reading it is you mean diverse. Right?

DrPhil 07-05-2009 10:41 AM

Other countries sometimes call it something other than "race," because race is considered a North American construct, but it is all the same general construct and social hierarchy.

;) You don't have to rely on the selective and limited observations of the people you know who lived in other countries. There is a ton of interesting literature on this that you can check out to satisfy your curiosities.

ETA: People who live in settings in America and overseas where everyone looks alike often claim that there are no racial (and similar) distinctions made between people. Well, of course if you're basing your opinions on such matters solely on what you see, you wouldn't observe anything if 95% of the people in the areas you are in look the same. Even in more diverse settings, a lot of people are waiting for some overt sign of distinctions made between people, usually a form of bigotry. "I've never seen a minority person be mistreated;" "Minorities walk around and they are barely noticed as minorities, so race doesn't matter;" and "we call people by their names and not by their races" are common responses that actually have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Xanthus 07-06-2009 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1823193)
Even in more diverse settings, a lot of people are waiting for some overt sign of distinctions made between people, usually a form of bigotry. "I've never seen a minority person be mistreated;" "Minorities walk around and they are barely noticed as minorities, so race doesn't matter;" and "we call people by their names and not by their races" are common responses that actually have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

This is pretty much what I was getting at.

DrPhil 07-06-2009 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanthus (Post 1823353)
This is pretty much what I was getting at.

I hope not.

sdeason1 07-06-2009 02:16 PM

it seems that some are more interested in history and what names were used in the past eras than those that actually used those names who lived it. one thing needs to be learned, you cannot erase history.

Senusret I 07-06-2009 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdeason1 (Post 1823470)
it seems that some are more interested in history and what names were used in the past eras than those that actually used those names who lived it. one thing needs to be learned, you cannot erase history.

It also seems that some are Tom Earp.

madmax 07-06-2009 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1822305)
I believe part of the issue of why some people take offense to the term "African American" is because of the association to some of the negatives associated with Africans that has been mentally forced upon them over the centuries.



How is the association to negatives mentally forced on you? If somebody could mentally force something upon you they should have mentally forced you to get jobs, take care of your kids and stop breaking the law.

If you would do the right thing the negatives would not exist and you would not be associated with the negatives.

SydneyK 07-06-2009 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmax (Post 1823484)
If I would do the right thing I would not be associated with the negatives.

Fixed that for ya.

lovespink88 07-07-2009 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmax (Post 1823484)
If you would do the right thing the negatives would not exist and you would not be associated with the negatives.

Has anyone ever told you that you REALLY need to get a life? I know, I know, I should just ignore you, but it just blows my mind that a person actually gets a kick out of coming to a fraternity and sorority message board to try to get a rise out of people by making racist comments. It's kinda sad, actually. Why don't you try knitting or something?

ETA: HA!! I just saw a thread (that I had never seen before) in which KSUViolet told him to try knitting as well. I guess great minds think alike ;)

DrPhil 07-07-2009 11:12 PM

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Unless you know the people behind the usernames, they can be whomever and whatever. Madmax is probably a Black person who is really really really bored. Knitting would be a great idea. :)

lovespink88 07-07-2009 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1824051)
I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Unless you know the people behind the usernames, they can be whomever and whatever. Madmax is probably a Black person who is really really really bored. Knitting would be a great idea. :)

Maybe, but that still doesn't change the fact that he/she/it needs to get a hobby.

DrPhil 07-07-2009 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovespink88 (Post 1824062)
Maybe, but that still doesn't change the fact that he/she/it needs to get a hobby.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Unless you know the people behind the usernames, they can be whomever and whatever. Madmax is probably a Black person who is really really really bored. Knitting would be a great idea. :)

PrettyBoy 07-08-2009 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tired Black Man (Post 1823005)
And before I get started, you try this shit with me and I will beat the hell out of you with an extension cord. You hear me?

WTF??? http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gif

ETA: and why does it have to be an extension cord? If this joker would have said a belt though, I would have been DEAD!!!! http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gif

lovespink88 07-08-2009 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1824073)
I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Unless you know the people behind the usernames, they can be whomever and whatever. Madmax is probably a Black person who is really really really bored. Knitting would be a great idea. :)

:confused:

Maybe I should have been more specific. I was more so replying to the part where you said "Unless you know the people behind the usernames, they can be whomever and whatever." To me, it sounded as though you were defending him/her/it by saying I was being unfair to judge madmax because I don't know who/what he/she/it really is. I was just agreeing by saying, while that may be true, it still doesn't change the fact that I think he/she/it needs a hobby. Just agreeing. :)

madmax 07-08-2009 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovespink88 (Post 1824062)
Maybe, but that still doesn't change the fact that he/she/it needs to get a hobby.



Are you afraid of the truth?




Quote:


Breaking the Silence
By HENRY LOUIS GATES JR.

Published: August 1, 2004


Go into any inner-city neighborhood," Barack Obama said in his keynote address to the Democratic National Convention, "and folks will tell you that government alone can't teach kids to learn. They know that parents have to parent, that children can't achieve unless we raise their expectations and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting white." In a speech filled with rousing applause lines, it was a line that many black Democratic delegates found especially galvanizing. Not just because they agreed, but because it was a home truth they'd seldom heard a politician say out loud.

Why has it been so difficult for black leaders to say such things in public, without being pilloried for "blaming the victim"? Why the huge flap over Bill Cosby's insistence that black teenagers do their homework, stay in school, master standard English and stop having babies? Any black person who frequents a barbershop or beauty parlor in the inner city knows that Mr. Cosby was only echoing sentiments widely shared in the black community.

"If our people studied calculus like we studied basketball," my father, age 91, once remarked as we drove past a packed inner-city basketball court at midnight, "we'd be running M.I.T." When my brother and I were growing up in the 50's, our parents convinced us that the "blackest" thing that we could be was a doctor or a lawyer. We admired Hank Aaron and Willie Mays, but our real heroes were people like Thurgood Marshall, Dr. Benjamin Mays and Mary McLeod Bethune.

Yet in too many black neighborhoods today, academic achievement has actually come to be stigmatized. "We are just not the same people anymore," says the mayor of Memphis, Dr. Willie W. Herenton. "We are worse off than we were before Brown v. Board," says Dr. James Comer, a child psychiatrist at Yale. "And a large part of the reason for this is that we have abandoned our own black traditional core values, values that sustained us through slavery and Jim Crow segregation."

Making it, as Mr. Obama told me, "requires diligent effort and deferred gratification. Everybody sitting around their kitchen table knows that."

"Americans suffer from anti-intellectualism, starting in the White House," Mr. Obama went on. "Our people can least afford to be anti-intellectual." Too many of our children have come to believe that it's easier to become a black professional athlete than a doctor or lawyer. Reality check: according to the 2000 census, there were more than 31,000 black physicians and surgeons, 33,000 black lawyers and 5,000 black dentists. Guess how many black athletes are playing professional basketball, football and baseball combined. About 1,400. In fact, there are more board-certified black cardiologists than there are black professional basketball players. "We talk about leaving no child behind," says Dena Wallerson, a sociologist at Connecticut College. "The reality is that we are allowing our own children to be left behind." Nearly a third of black children are born into poverty. The question is: why?

Scholars such as my Harvard colleague William Julius Wilson say that the causes of black poverty are both structural and behavioral. Think of structural causes as "the devil made me do it," and behavioral causes as "the devil is in me." Structural causes are faceless systemic forces, like the disappearance of jobs. Behavioral causes are self-destructive life choices and personal habits. To break the conspiracy of silence, we have to address both of these factors.

"A lot of us," Mr. Obama argues, "hesitate to discuss these things in public because we think that if we do so it lets the larger society off the hook. We're stuck in an either/or mentality - that the problem is either societal or it's cultural."

It's important to talk about life chances - about the constricted set of opportunities that poverty brings. But to treat black people as if they're helpless rag dolls swept up and buffeted by vast social trends - as if they had no say in the shaping of their lives - is a supreme act of condescension. Only 50 percent of all black children graduate from high school; an estimated 64 percent of black teenage girls will become pregnant. (Black children raised by female "householders" are five times as likely to live in poverty as those raised by married couples.) Are white racists forcing black teenagers to drop out of school or to have babies?

Mr. Cosby got a lot of flak for complaining about children who couldn't speak standard English. Yet it isn't a derogation of the black vernacular - a marvelously rich and inventive tongue - to point out that there's a language of the marketplace, too, and learning to speak that language has generally been a precondition for economic success, whoever you are. When we let black youth become monolingual, we've limited their imaginative and economic possibilities.

These issues can be ticklish, no question, but they're badly served by silence or squeamishness. Mr. Obama showed how to get the balance right. We've got to create as many opportunities as we can for the worst-off - and "make sure that every child in America has a decent shot at life." But values matter, too. We can't talk about the choices people have without talking about the choices people make.

Reaad the rest at http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/01/op...1gates.html?hp


KSUViolet06 07-08-2009 01:39 PM

What is with this article?

Do you have it on "speed post?"

You need a hobby.

Crochet much?

madmax 07-08-2009 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 1824153)
What is with this article?

Do you have it on "speed post?"

You need a hobby.

Crochet much?


I am just posting a speech by the messiah.
Do you have a problem with the speech?

knight_shadow 07-08-2009 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 1824153)
What is with this article?

Do you have it on "speed post?"

You need a hobby.

Crochet much?

That's the only example he has in his arsenal.

It's funny, though, that he quotes an article by a black writer that includes references about our black president, considering none of us have jobs, education, or the will to take care of our children. :rolleyes:

lovespink88 07-08-2009 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmax (Post 1824149)
Are you afraid of the truth?

DUN DUN DUNNNNNNN. How dramatic of you.

BabyPiNK_FL 07-08-2009 02:15 PM

Does MM remind any one else of Uncle Ruckus? Or is it just me?

madmax 07-08-2009 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1824159)
That's the only example he has in his arsenal.

It's funny, though, that he quotes an article by a black writer that includes references about our black president, considering none of us have jobs, education, or the will to take care of our children. :rolleyes:



Would you like additional examples? How about every speaker at the Million Bro March. Bill Cosby also speaks the truth.


One black writer and a half black President doesn't outweigh MILLIONs of blacks that don't have jobs, don't care about education and don't take care of their kids.


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