Only if they insist. :D I'm actually baffled at the responses.

They act like we're some white people who are chastising the majority of blacks for not having wealthy great grandparents. Or that we're white people chastising blacks for not going to white schools during the de facto segregation era. Is what we're asking so unrealistic and unreasonable? :confused:

If this thread would have had the more accurate title "the first sorority to tell school administrators they were jagoffs" we would have had a lot less confusion.

Plus, if you want to get technical, the group of women were demanding equal rights before Chi Omega or MLC ever got involved. The only reason they became a chapter, apparently, was to piss the administration off. You could argue that MLC could have supported them just as much without their being Greek affiliated.

(I missed this part of your post completely)

This is definitely worth discussing and thank YOU for highlighting this. Breaking the male hold on education was definitely important and that's different than saying "we thought education was important."

Marching and signing doesn't do the whole job but someone has to do it. Usually it's a result of multitasking and working on national and local initiatives as I said earlier.

So was your documented agenda that of the individual woman during these social movements? I'm not talking about opinion, I'm asking for what you all did as a whole. An interesting thing about social movements is that there is often a division of labor. But NPC sororities focused on what they saw as important. Focusing on educating the individual women and challenging faculty and administration on college campuses. I guess NPC organizations weren't involved at the organizational-level beyond that emphasis on the individual woman. Is that correct based on you all's records? If that's what you all are going on the record as claiming, I respect that.

i'm being WAY presumptious here, but can we chalk this debate up to different priorities between NPC and NPHC? I'm sure particular members of NPC orgs had made contributions to the women's movement, as members of the NPHC did. It could be a difference of how well it was documented, the time difference (as DSTCHAOS mentioned, late 1800s vs early 1900s, were talking a difference of 20-30 years?) and what each group of women defined as what was important in the fight for "equal rights," from ironing after-hours (im not sure what that means exactly) to marching in the women's suffrage march in 1920 (which, as its noted that had SGRho existed then, my founders most likely would've been alongside DST).

im talking out of thin air here, but maybe this is borderline apples-oranges of an argument?

Thanks for the info! I wish I had read page 3 earlier. :p

I love Pi Beta Phi. Was Catt able to influence Pi Phi's initiatives to incorporate some League of Women Voters stuff?

Cool beans. :D AGD started a house fund and that rocks!

I dunno.

The movement existed and there were women involved. Fact. I didn't know that the NPC sororities got together and as whole decided to focus on the individual woman. Learn something new everyday. Cool.

As far as documentation. People often find the info that they want to find. I find it hard to believe that none of the sororities would have that information available to anyone.

I never knew that and I think that's truly amazing. I like that it was an organization-wide cause.

For the record, I think the title of this thread is confusing and misleading.

oldu - I really enjoy your research. I do hate that sometimes an ill-conceived title gets in the way. May I humbly suggest that instead of the more general titles you have used in the past, you make your titles very specific, thus avoiding the hurt feelings sometimes engendered by groups feeling slighted or ignored?

As to the whole NPC/NPHC thing - we need to understand that the groups were largely products of their times. Thus the different focus in terms of original purpose, for example. But both groups had hundreds of active, educated women who made a difference in their groups, colleges, communities and country. We need to celebrate those noble women, and worry less about who did what when and more about the overall progress brought about the individual and group efforts of the wonderful members of BOTH of our groups.

Yes, I do know it, which is why I never claimed that it was. In fact I stated that all of the work you are talking about was critical. I'm simply saying that NPHC women did everything you are talking about as well, not instead.

That's what we were trying to get to. It's like some complex riddle apparently.

We can multitask. :)

Why's it interesting to discuss Mrs. Collins but suddenly not interesting to discuss who did what when on a much grander scale? If folks don't know the info, just say that. A couple of NPC women in this thread have shared some other accomplishments that spanned beyond the college campus and I love reading info like that.

Is the answer to the question that I asked you "no?"

What question did you ask me?

My fault. It was another Theta. But you can answer because it's your sorority. You edited my question out of that post you quoted. :)

Oh ok I found it! Sorry I got distracted because I was seriously interested in the fact that DST made it an organization-wide cause.

And the answer to your question is "no" :( Inspired by this thread, I looked in my copy of "Bound By a Mighty Vow" and learned that Kappa Alpha Theta never took an official position on suffrage. To be honest, it was actually a divisive issue for our sorority because there were women who were extremely passionate about women's right to vote, while there were also women who thought that it was "unwomanly" to protest, speak out, etc. Theta didn't want to alienate members...so they never took an official position.

I think Thetas have been pioneers for women in so many ways, but I was a bit disappointed and surprised to find out that we didn't officially support women's right to vote. I sincerely have a great deal of respect and admiration for your organization for making it such an important cause...that took a great deal of courage.

ETA: It was honestly sort of hard for me to come to terms with the fact that Theta resisted taking a stance because it might "look bad" because...I love and respect Kappa Alpha Theta so much, but I also love voting, and it's hard for me to fully grasp that they wouldn't stand up for women's rights. I know it's a product of the times, but it's really difficult for me to imagine that women would be so concerned with image and with being proper that they would not want to VOTE.

I think that if oldu would expand his scope of sororities beyond Chi Omega, then yes, his threads would evolve with a different tone. No disrespect to Chi O. ;)

Since his research focuses on greek life, then he either should include all GLOs - NPHC, NPC, IFC, NIC, MCGLO, NAFLO, and locals (sorry if I forgot one), OR he should do as others have suggested and specifically state which group / council he is referring to in the title. I mean, some of his titles seem open-ended, so people will infer different things from them.

And just to state, I don't think my NPHC SisterGreeks have hurt feelings from what oldu posts. I don't. I just think they want to get him and others to realize that there is more out there with respect to greek life than just one or two groups. I would think that if oldu's research is truly exhaustive, then he would easily see that.