I am not a DU alum (although I drive past it a lot) but I stopped reading or believing anything you had to say after I read this because you obviously drank the Kool-Aid - or should I say hater-ade.

Many colleges have local fraternities and sororities that operate just as well, if not better, than nationals. Many local fraternities and sororities have alum support that chapters of nationals can only DREAM about.

Many locals do have insurance. They do have anti-hazing pledge programs. You are right in that they don't have traveling consultants (that would be pretty stupid) and they don't have national boards who are 1000s of miles away who never have visited the campus - but they DO have alumni who not only hold the organization, but the school, close to their hearts. They have to answer to those alumni.

You aren't going to get any support from alumni who have affection and respect for the locals - who had a long history - by bashing them and saying things that are just outright lies.

Oh, and just because someone was a leadership consultant does not automatically make them qualified to be a Greek advisor - especially if she never worked w/ a chapter at a school that is in the middle of a city like Duquesne is.

I would like to respond to DU Greek. I started this chat because I had been hearing from my sisters that all is not well at Duquesne. My intention was to see if others were feeling the same way and it is apparent I struck a chord with others out there. Not only did alum check out this site but so did collegiates.

I will try to respond to you Craig the very best way I know how and go point by point with you. We certainly can agree to disagree.

I do not live in Pittsburgh. I live and work in New York. Many of my sisters log on to this site to talk about different things from helping each other locate jobs to talking about how much fun we had while we were undergraduates at Duquesne.

I will speak first to the idea of "locals" vs. "nationals." You are correct that most of Duquesne's chapters are national. However, I would remind you that Gamma Phi is not a national fraternity..it is, in fact, local. Why have they been permitted to stay when others were asked to leave. Do they hold insurance, as you suggest, that is different from the Betas, or Kappa Sigma Phi?

Housing: Housing was an issue even when I graduated a little over four years ago. What I have been told, and you are certainly willing to disagree, is that the housing in Towers is now becoming freshman and sophomore as DU has grown. What is the population of juniors and seniors vs. freshman and sophomore in Towers? My parents made me move out in my junior year because FAFSA and other loans were not available to me to pay for housing. I had no choice..my parents couldn't pay anymore. I was able to split the cost of living on the southside with my friends for a fraction of what DU was asking for housing.

I was never made aware that DU paid for half of everything when it came to our wing. My sisters have told me that they were asked to pitch in thousands of dollars for improvements to our wing...did DU pay thousands of dollars as their half of was it just up to $1,000.00. Was there any contract, signed by DU to our chapter that stated we would be paying thousands of dollars more?

I cannot answer your questions regarding alumni and how much they give. My parents could not afford to go to college and we are not native to Pittsburgh. You will have to take that up with Red Rover.

I do not know the new head of Greek Life...only through emails with my collegiate sisters. They feel immense pressure to try and do things from service, to other things while trying to do their school work. Maybe GLO should back off of some of the projects and pick just a few as a compromise.

I do think that meetings should be held where anyone who has responded to this site can come and meet with you.

DU Greek:

I just heard from a good friend who was in a local fraternity. He said to tell you this. "Local fraternities and sororities BUILT Duquesne brick by brick. He should get down on his knees and thank the Lord for their help both as undergraduates and as alumni. To suggest that locals bring nothing to the table...he's talking stupid."

Thank you all for your replies. I really do want try to inject a little of my perspective into this discussion, because although 33Girl objects, I am more involved with the Greek System at Duquesne than any of you (through your own admissions).

While I respect how this board was started to open a discussion about what is really going on at Duquesne's Greek Life system, to immediately reject any and all of my comments is counterproductive. You certainly have the right to disagree with some of my opinions, but there ARE certain facts that you need to have. I am the President of my chapter's Alumni Advisor board, so my experience is not purely from the University side. I've also been an instructor at my Fraternity's national leadership college, so I've heard plenty about other schools' system, too.

Regardless, you had questions about individual locals. NONE of the locals was ever asked to close up or affiliate with a national preemptively. EACH of the locals at some point in history was faced with declining membership, a severe judicial issue, or apathy among the brothers or sisters that caused the chapter's future to be in question. When any of these things happened, Duquesne could have completely shut down the chapter and that's it. But all locals had the opportunity to merge into a national organization because the University understood the importance of the strength of a strong Greek Chapter. The best examples of this are AE/ATO. This chapter was Alpha Epsilon local for many years and for some reason, chose to affiliate with Alpha Tau Omega. This alumni group refers to themselves as AE/ATO and they're very proud of both groups' history.

Second is ZBT/SAE. Again, ZBT was facing imminent closure and decided to affiliate with SAE to remain open and get the benefits associated with being a part of a large national.

On the sorority side, there are others, too. Unfortunately, I forget the old/new letters combinations, but for the most part, each of the women who has been around long enough to remember the old local is proud of the successes of the new. My only direct experience has been watching Sigma Lambda Phi affiliate with Sigma Kappa.

If your friend ,who I assume is a recent graduate, finds it necessary to remind me that every brick was laid by locals, that's fine, but Jim O'Day, who is an AE from before the merger, doesn't see it that way. He understands the value of a large national organization and understands that while locals were a tremendous asset to the University, the fact remains that today, they struggle to compete.

There are some locals who faced a severe membership or judicial issue who didn't even have the support from alumni to facilitate affiliating with a new organization. It saddens me to see any Greek organization leave, but there's some times when it's out of anyone's control to help.

The Gamma Phis have competed well in the University system. They have a strong brotherhood and have a positive track record. The University has no desire to force a local chapter to go national without cause, and Gammas serve as an example of that.

Second issue: I'm not going to deny that housing is a serious issue. And I'm not going to tell you that the University's position is the best. But I can tell you that it's going to be a couple of years before there's new housing on campus, and until that occurs, it's going to be a struggle. It's a struggle for all students. Duquesne simply does not have the necessary housing.

But to say that Duquesne is using the housing issue to force out the Greek system is absurd. It's a major problem. Discussions ARE ongoing every month between the Greek Alumni Council, the Office of Greek Life, and University Administration. They understand the undergrads' frustration, the alumni frustration, but until there's new housing on campus, it's a struggle.

It all starts with recruitment. If Towers is so crowded that we can't have our own wings, that means there's a ton of students who WANT to live in Towers. Let's recruit them. Duquesne is never going to have Greek Houses - I said HOUSES, not HOUSING - so we'd better be able to come up with creative ways to protect what we do have. My parlor fee suggestion works. So does having a bylaw that requires officers' to live on the wing.

It's really hard to convince the Administration that the housing problem is killing the Greek System when there are certain fraternities and sororities that have kept their wings.

Finally, the new Director of Greek Life was more than a leadership consultant. She has experience at Ohio State, University of South Florida, and John Carroll. All three are in large cities, and it can be argued that Duquesne and John Carroll (Cleveland) are exact peers.

And it also should be mentioned that Duquesne's Greek system is much more advanced that John Carroll's.

I would be very enthusiastic about meeting with anyone from this page. HOWEVER, it appears that most of what you're looking to do is complain. I am completely willing to meet with this entire group, but I'm not interested in sitting in on a bitch session. If you're TRULY interested in hearing the truth about what the UNIVERSITY can do, what the OFFICE OF GREEK LIFE can do, and what YOU must do, I'll facilitate any meeting. But there is WORK that is required on your part. The solutions to these problems do not get handed down to you by anyone. You have to continue (or begin) to work with your undergraduates to accept the challenges and succeed in spite of them. Perhaps you should look around and see how lucky we really are for what we DO have. This isn't Penn State or VT or Arizona State, but it's certainly a strong, proud Greek system.

The Greek Alumni Council has our next meeting during the upcoming Carnival. I will be around most of the day Saturday. If you're coming to Carnival, please let me know and we can schedule a time to talk.

asu has a weak greek system.

What's the average size of your Fraternities? How big is the largest? Over 100?

{ sarc }
Wait, wait, I must have missed the memo?

The time for locals is over?

Geez...man....what have my sisters been doing for the last 87 years? Time to pack up the crest...
{ / sarc }

< deploy local sorority defense team >
The quality of locals is a campus-by-campus thing. In some places, they're the cream of the crop, better than nationals. In others, they're your stereotypical local, that I want to kick in the shins because they give the rest of us a bad name. But you get that with nationals as well. There are chapters out there that ruin the good name of the organization. Unfortunately, in the case of locals...they've only got one chapter, one reputation to ruin. That's some high stakes.
As a local, we are overseen by the university, who holds our charter. If we step out of line, we can be closed, lose our house, lose the right to recruit, etc. Period. We are also overseen by our alumnae board, who can chose to close us. And we have a staff adviser, who keeps us in line w/ university policy. There is a Panhellenic and IFC council, as well as a Greek Governing Board for disciplinary actions. Alcohol consumption/liability issues are easy : it is forbidden anywhere on campus, including fraternity/sorority houses and any function associated with the sorority, including events off campus (camping weekends, etc). Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but it means there are definite consequences.

Becoming a national is not a panacea. As you can see on the "operations" board...nationals have their fair share of hazing, alochol consumption, and general craziness, despite consultants and programming and etc.

I don't "object" - talk your head off. I'm just saying that when I read a post that puts down locals across the board in the way that you did, I'm guessing that the rest of what the person has to say will be similarly 1) incorrect or 2) HQ/administration PR that they are regurgitating without thinking about it. But it's funny to read.

Oh, and I don't know why you are including ZBT turning into SAE with the "locals" issue....ZBT is a national fraternity. Of course, it's a historically Jewish national fraternity, so maybe that was the problem.

DU Greek:

You've offended local fraternity and sorority members both on a local level and on a national level. Instead of trying to explain them away, why didn't you just apologize for the remarks? I dated a Gamma and he is offended by your calous handling of local vs. national. There should even be a "versus" issue if you think that the Gammas are good men on DU's campus.

As I said in the very first thread when I opened this discussion, DU needs to find out why recruitment numbers are down when the largest freshman class in the history of the school came in last year. Why doesn't someone ask the entire student body at DU why they aren't going through recruitment. Maybe then you will find your answers to many of these questions.

DU Greek:

I just received an email from one of my sisters who has been watching this site. Freshman and sophomores are REQUIRED to live in on campus housing, which would mean Towers for most if not all as they become sophomores.

They don't WANT to live in Towers...they HAVE to live in Towers. Again, what is the ratio of freshman and sophomores versus juniors and seniors living in Towers?

It's the overall negativity of your postings that I don't wish to compete with, DU Grad. I am as pro-Greek as they come and I fully support any organization that is supportive of the Greek system for the positive force for change it has developed into today. As I said, each local had a chance to succeed as the Gammas have done. Those who have not done well have affiliated with national organizations. These are facts; whatever else you read from my comments is fictitious.

Your willingness to jump down my throat for my comments proves to me that you're just in a witch-hunt to find someone to help you crucify the Greek system at your own University.

I heard one time at a National Fraternity Convention: "The Greek system is its own worst enemy."

I fight the negative stereotypes among the independents and general public every day, and I do so with passion, pride, and strength. But having to defend the Greek system from fellow Greeks is relatively new to me, and I understand now what that quote meant.

From this point forward, I hope you'll quit bitching and actually get involved to help change things in your chapter.

I'll continue to do hard work to improve the Greek System at Duquesne, and I'm confident many others will join me.

I still hold out hope that SOMEONE will contact me for an in-person meeting to discuss the issues at Duquesne off-line. So far, no one has. So, I'll continue with my work thankful that your negativity has not extended beyond the pages of this blog.

Duquesne Greeks - Onward and Upward

Craig

My Experience
 

Hello everyone. Contrary to popular belief, Duquesne is not killing the Greek system, and Father Hogan does not hate Greek Life, nor has this new director made a mess of things...AT ALL.

The groups that have been removed from this campus, even the groups that have recently been removed, have only themselves to blame. The same goes fro the chapters who have lost their wings.

I have been my chapter president for the past two years, and the wing requirement, which mandated that a certain percentage of the chapter lives on the wing-which would eventually reach 100%, was always communicated from Father Hogan and Residence Life. The problem was that every chapter thought it was a joke, and then when it came time to actually enforce the policy, everyone blamed Father or someone else.

Granted our chapter here at Duquesne will be keeping our wing, but only because we took what was told to us YEARS ago seriously. From what I have heard many people have complained about towers, and that is why the wing is being taken away. There were situations were chapters only had 5 members living a wing that had 26 beds. Is that fair to call that a Fraternity/Sorority wing when only 5 of 26 beds are filled by Greeks?

If a group of independents want a wing, they need to fill it at 100%. That is where the requirement came in, and so many kids would rather live other places than towers. When students do not want to live in towers, which many do not given the other housing options on campus and near by, and on top of that, the incoming freshman classes are so big now that freshman need to live in towers, it only makes sense to take away what isnt being used...the wings. If groups want the wings, members just need to live there.

Also, the notion that the new director of Greek Life is making a mess of things is absolutely absurd. She has been amazing, and the hard work she is putting in is only going to make our Greek System stronger. Our previous Director was very good as well, however what separates the new director is her ability to connect with the students. She connects much more with us, and has a better understanding of what we are going through, and what it is that can make out groups successful.

Working very closely with the new director and Father Hogan, have allowed me to see how much this school NEEDS greek life and also the appreciation for what the Greeks on this campus do. From the money raised, to the philanthropic events around the campus and the communities around Duquesne, so much of what Duquesne stands for is found within the Greek Community.

Have groups made mistakes, of course. Everyone makes mistakes, but if Duquesne wanted the Greek Life gone so bad, why haven't they pulled the trigger yet??? If they are so tired of dealing with us from housing etc, then any error made a Greek group should be enough to push the administration over the edge...

The Greek System is going to be fine. I would not be the same person I am today without the DUQUESNE Greek System. I have met some of the most amazing people through this experience, from faculty and staff, to other Greeks from fraternities and sororities.

There is a lot be proud of here, and alumni should be involved, because we all took a lifetime obligation, not one that lasts four years. That is the only way to stay connected, and simply relying on what others report back to you, without being involved is not helping anything.

I look forward to seeing the CONTINUED SUCCESS of the Greek Community here at Duquesne.

DAMN PROUD

some of the larger chapters, especially the ones on greek row can have upwards of a 100 members. many of the off campus chapters have anywhere from 10 to 80 members. The Greek system here is composed of 22 Fraternities (IFC) and 12 sororities (PAN) ASU is a very populated campus with greek life attributing to roughly 5% of the student body. what makes it a weak system is that there is very little support from the university to promote greek life and an overwhelming negative stereotype of the greek system from the student body. Also, there is little to no greek unity amongst ourselves.

DU Greek:

Wow...no wonder my collegiate sisters felt it necessary to reach out to alum. As a teacher my professors at DU were awesome. My peers as well as professors critiqued my lessons plans and my teaching style. It made me a better teacher all around.

My grandmother used to say, "He/she has a chip on their shoulder." If you have to defend the greek community to the general public "every day" then maybe you need to take some anger management courses.

I will continue to speak for my collegiate sisters as they are obviously intimidated by you and others on the campus of Duquesne.

I would like to respond to the "Greek Problems at Duquesne University" thread that was started a few weeks ago.

I don't believe in hiding my name. This is the first and last response to this chat site that I will make.

I can fully understand the frustration of DUgrad and others. There are major greek problems happening at Duquesne and everyone needs to sit down at a board table and work towards solutions. What the chat site did was bring to the forefront these issues and DUgrad you had every right to do so.

But, this is a national chat site and the answers to these issues do not lie here. What is happening is that our university is being placed in a very bad light and solving the problems cannot be done here, in this forum.

I would encourage everyone who has visited this site to get in touch with their local advisers, alumnae organizations, and national officers if you need to and then reach out to Craig at the Greek Alumni Council to ask for support.

Please stop the postings and actively look for the solutions. We can, as a greek community, start to fix these issues.

Gina Ehrhart
AGD/Alpha Omega Chapter