Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS
(Post 1352804)
If you're asking for shinerbock to articulate a sophisticated methodology in determining why he feels affirmative action should be eliminated, he probably will not be able to do so. When people oppose affirmative action for the reasons that he does, it isn't about some measurable outcome or socially significant negative effect of affirmative action.
Then again, a less presumptuous approach to epistemology is similar to the standpoint epistemology that Patricia Hill Collins and others wrote about. Everyone comes with a particular standpoint that shapes their perceptions, opinions, research design, and so forth. He told you his opinion which translates to how he came to know what he knows (epistemology) within the context of what he knows. You don't agree with his opinion and you never will, but you can't dismiss it as unsubstantiated fluff when he has clearly said why he thinks what he thinks.
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I have not seen any satisfactory articulation as to why Shinerbock THINKS AffAct should be eliminated. I could care less about how he feels about this subject and I probably already know his feelings as well as a few other folks here.
My career is about facts and statistics. That is my mindset and my modus operandi at all times. I need histories and "not what I feel about it today" or "opinions on it". What I deal with in my line of work is exactly what I can see. So, it is very difficult for me to make any inferences unless I am able to experimentally test it out based on a hypothesis.
With that being said, I have not been given facts or stats. It is not my opinion when I say things I do say unless I say IMHO or IMO. Period. Somebody has published and written this information on an US or state government agency website or it is trade literature...
No one has given me any trade literature, or US or state government agency website on the after-affects of ending Affirmative Action. At least for California, these sites should have 10 year data...
I do have
the Washington State Health Outcomes data for my state. Almost all underrepresented minority groups have the worst health outcome for every measurement taken. These data are piss-poor for some groups in this state...
So my questions are "why are there huge health disparities" in the United States generally? What causes them to be so poor? The National Institutes of Health Roadmap Initiatives are requesting various research groups address this issue. One of the items they suggest as well as the University of Washington's School of Medicine website lists is that if there were more people of color as physicians to treat their communities, there would be less health disparities...
Is that true? I dunno? But let us look at the data to see... Well, if our kids are discouraged from even applying for undergraduate work, how will they be able to move ahead for graduate/professional work? Sure, there will be the <0.025% kid that succeeds every 5-10 years, but in the absence of a concerted effort among faculty and staff, there will be no one to shore up these kids as they matriculate...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS
(Post 1352804)
No one is trying to put words in your mouth. I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and help you to communicate your points.
It reads like you are saying something similar to what I'm saying but in a different, perhaps less coherent, way. Yes, majority groups should be in opposition if it threatens their opportunity hoarding--if they don't come from a utilitarian framework. No, majority groups should not be in opposition just because of some assumed and socially insignificant negative outcome (if they can't explain WHY AffAct should be done away with, it shouldn't be done away with and opponents should go on about their business because why a black man got into some university typically will not affect them anyway).
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Thank you and I appreciate your insight and compassion. As much as folks love to share their "opinions" with us, like I said, what are the facts? We can revolve around this iceberg's tip never going in depth to the core of the issue or we could try to learn something from each other. I prefer the latter. But hey, what do I know? I am just some hack trying free minds here. I have been teaching college student close to 12 years now and I like to think that I know how to get them to learn complex issues... I guess I am too much into the Socratic Method...
