Reposting this from the other thread for DSTChaos:

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I agree that there are extremists in many religions. All one has to do is look at the Crusades, or the Salem Witch trials.... hence, why I'm not a fan of organized religion.

However, and maybe Opi can chime in here... what is one to think about Islam when the final words of Mohammed to his disciples was, "I was ordered to fight all men until they say, "There is no god but Allah."

and, in Qur'an :39 it says, "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah." and "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief --non Muslims) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone."

and in Ishaq :587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak and faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violenty before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight unti our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

Perhaps I'm not reading these quotes correctly, but it doesn't seem like a faith of tolerance and peace. Opi.. could you please clarify?

To comment on you, I'd like you to clarify the, well, the entire Old Testament that shows, explicitly or implicitly that it is ok to kill, rape and steal for land, just because you want it.

Yeah, but you're straying from terrorism to just general immoral acts. Nobody is molesting children because they are acting out their beliefs. Its a problem sure, but I don't think its directly related to Catholic faith.

Fight, onslaught, mutilate, plunder = literal or figurative? spiritual warfare or physical/actual warfare?

Any religious doctrine could be interpreted as intolerant and not peaceful. Christian doctrine says things like love thy neighbor (and so does the doctrine of other faiths...I believe the Q'uran has similar teachings) but Christianity isn't necessarily tolerant or peaceful toward 1) nonbelievers and 2) people with certain lifestyles. Depending on how Scripture is interpreted and what crazies get a hold of certain interpretations, we could see (even more) crazy Christians running around oppressing and killing people in the names of Jesus and God.

The crusade wasn't magically called off and not every muslim is part of the Jihad. Everytime an abortion doctor is threatened, it is act of some one who sees himself as a CRUSADER and the rest of him call him a CHRISTIAN TERRORIST because that is what he really is.

I'm going out on a little bit of limb, but according to my good friend (who is muslim) there are NO calls to violence against non-Muslims in the Koran. (whatever spelling you like)

I agree with your point. Just look at the Christian extremists who bombed abortion clinics.

Many passages in the Bible.. both in the New and Old Testament can be interpreted many ways. That's why I was asking for an interpretation of these passages in the Q'uran.

But, could there possibly be a peaceful interpretation of the above quoted Q'uran passages? It seems to be all about "forcing" others to convert.. not about "witnessing" or "spreading the word."

I agree with much of what you say.. however.. I disagree about the "truly small" percentage of Muslim militants. There are jhadist networks and cells all over Europe, the US, and... in fact.. the world. There are training camps for militant Muslims, and schools that brainwash young people to promote the hate of all non-Muslims.

The numbers truly are quite staggering. While it is impossible to get an exact count.. there have been estimations. Of course, polls are not an exact science, but can give one a rough idea.

Among them: Monte and Princess Palmer's 2003 study finds an estimated four percent of Muslims in the world are Islamist fundamentalists. That is a HUGE number, considering there are an estimated 1.2 billion Muslims in the world. Islam is the second largest religion on the globe.

I just don't see those types of massive organized cells and networks devoted to wiping out other religions among Christians, Hindus, Buddhists or any other religions.

Made my changes in the quote.

1 - Citation for stats

2 - Define your terms -> 'fundamentalist' does not equal 'terrorist' or even 'militant', on any automatic level

Maybe you aren't understand correctly, but _Opi_ already said that she would not answer you, so please quit badgering her about answering your questions.

I'm going to say it, time and time again...if you want the answers to your question, actually go out, do some research, take a class, talk to a sheik (that's what they are called right?).

Besides, "fight" does not always mean "coming to blows" or any physical violence. For all we know, back when Mohammed said it, he could have meant something totally different.

Like others have mentioned, there are passages in the Bible that are pretty questionable now, but that is because we put our own little "twisted" spin on it.

Badgering. Wouldn't that be considered harassment?

:eek: As a matter of fact, it does. According to http://www.dictionary.com, it says:

badg·er·ing
To harass or pester persistently.

See Synonyms at harass.

Well what do ya freaking know....learn something knew everyday don't cha? :D :D

Obviously, you wont pick up a hardcopy of the Quran yourself and you want the easy way out. Alright, let me break it down for you. Your first citation is "Qu'ran 39". This is not the right way to cite a verse from the holy book. You must have the chapter name or number and verse number. Example: Al-Baraqa 50. Al-Baraqa is the chapter name. 50 is the specific verse. Or you can write it like so..surah 2 (which is Al-Baraqa):50. There is no chapter in the Quran named Quran. Therefore the first quote you gave me wasINCORRECT.

Your second citation is "Ishaq:587". There is no chapter called "Ishaq". In fact, the closest sounding chapter is "Al-Ishiqaq". I thought this was a good-faith mistake until I looked at the verse #. 587. The longest chapter in the Quran is Al-Baraqa. It contains 286 verses. Let me repeat this in case you missed it. There is no chapter and no such verse in the Quran.

Now, I ran some searches on google to see where you might have gotten them and here are the top results:

First verse:

An acoustic guitar forum
Prophet of Doom (lol)
JihadWatch

Second verse:

Prophet of Doom
Jihad in Islam (understanding-Islam.com is a Christian website)
FaithFreedom


They cite those verse the same (incorrect) way. I can only assume you went to one of those sites to get your verses. Like I said, you're wasting your time and you have already wasted mine for making me type an essay.


Have a nice day:)

No it does not. Please stop slandering a Holy Book that you have never read.

How do you leave your home everyday? If I thought there was a mass Jihad going on, I would not dare step out of my house.

As for organized? How so? Muslims in Iraq are killing each other. I would hardly call that organized. Please explain your understanding of world politics so we can understand where you are coming from.