I've met Bush. Rush Limbaugh's had conversations with Bush. Nancy Pelosi has probably had several meetings with Bush. This doesn't mean he has any significant connections to the administration, it means he's had some contact with the President. He's a leader of an organization, like say, PETA or the NAACP. However, I doubt you'd say leaders of those organizations were "connected to the administration."

Isn't the "elected" president of anything the "representative" of that organization? You really need to stop with the knee-jerk blanket apologies for those that are either wrong or hypocritical in the name of Republicanism. Please stop drinking the Kool-Aid and think for yourself. I don't defend ant Dem that is wrong, be it Howard Dean or John Kerry. Wrong is wrong whether in a Blue or Red state.

BTW, as an opponent of the legalization of gay marriage (an oxymoron), and a member of an evangelical church, it does my position no favor to have such miscreants undermining a position that I happen to share. Haggard should have recused himself knowing his proclivities for vice. A drug abusing sodomite is the antithesis of the positions that he was ordained for and elected to. As such, he needs to be above reproach. I don't exult in Haggard's difficulties, rather I pity him and the church movement that has been hurt by his misdeeds and will pray for the restoration of both.

When did I ever apologize for him. Simply because you're the leader of some sect of evangelical Christianity does not mean you're their voice. I think he's disgusting, try reading next time.

Man you really try your best to change reality w/ rhetoric. Peta nor the NAACP make frequent conference calls to the White House as did Haggard.

Please post what information you have regarding his connections to the White House...Lets see, he's a Christian leader, and Christians make up a large portion of the Republican party...You don't think Bush meets with leaders of black organizations, or environmental organizations? Of course he does, granted, he may not care for what they have to say, but he meets with leaders from a wide variety of groups. I have seen nothing which indicates that this guy had any role in the administration's plans for marriage. My pastor is against gay marriage, would his meeting with Bush be significant? People just do anything they can to tie some guy's downfall to Bush. The president of Penn was photographed with a guy dressed up as a bomber for halloween, I'm sure its only a matter of time before we find secret letters connecting her agenda to the Bush White House.

The connection is that he made weekly or bi-weekly conference calls to the White house and also consulted w/ members of the White house on Gay marriage,judicial appointments as well as steel tariffs. Haggard even bragged about the direct connections that he had w/ the White House, we all know that the White House will down play Haggard's connections now as they did w/ Jack Abramoff. Now to address another one of your mis-informed post, let me ask if the leader of an organization isn't the ultimate representative of that organization then who is?

AX, you still haven't posted your sources. From MSNBC...

Haggard, who had been NAE president since 2003, has participated in conference calls with White House staffers and lobbied Congress last year on Supreme Court nominees.

My best friend participates in conference calls with Karl Rove, I don't really see him as having an substantial connections to the administration or its policies. The simple fact is, trying to associate this guy with Bush is just juvenile and absurd. He's a Christian leader, and Bush meets with tons of them. He doesn't work for the White House, and even if he did, so what?

As for him being a leader, I think he probably is a leader of his church and whatever that group was. However, that group likely doesn't represent the majority of evangelical Christians I imagine, and therefore I highly doubt people could legitimately claim that he represents the majority of evangelical Christians. I fail to see how his conduct reflects upon anyone but himself.

I don't have time to look up the sources again...just do a yahoo search on Ted Haggard's connections to the White House.

I did, and thats what I got. Call this guy a hypocrite all you want, but trying to drag the administration through the mud on this is simply absurd.

Funny in the Rocky Mountain times and other yahoo news search I got that he made weekly conference calls to the White House where he consulted w/ members of the White house on several issues. ( issues I mentioned in my post above.) not saying you're lying but.....the facts say different....

The Haggard is sad (and tragic) on many fronts. The discourse has occluded some real interesting points:the real danger and ambivalence of the political realm for believers,and the implicit pastoral theology that undergirds many sectors of Christianity.

1) It's no accident that before Jesus was sent on his mission he was put through a time of trial, facing the wiles of Satan, not some cartoonish figure bit the spirit of this Age that dominates through the deceiving and appealing use of power, prestige,worldly wealth and hubris. Jesus faced this in his context, being promised the oikumene ("world," that, is the Roman Empire) if Jesus worshipped him. We live in this Age and we are fallen, whether "saved and filled with the Holy Spirit," atheist or Satanist;thus no one is immune from being caught up and blinded by worldly power and one's focus being taken away from God as one's life-giving and life-sustaining power in all aspects of life. If there's a maxin that should be in the Bible it is the one that says, 'Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely'. For Rev. Haggard, who started off as one motivated by God's Spirit and his person and ministry born of God's power, ends up viewing himself and thus his actions as an extension of his public self as Evangelical leader and leader in the culture wars. Then one cares more about Machiavellian concerns and not about the unity of person and persona,the integration of which in the acceptance of our common humanity in our falleness and absolute need for God's mercy everyday and, by extension, a more generous view of humanity at large as the recipient of God's mercy. Evangelicals want to exercise worldly power to effect godly change but it's a very dangerous and risky venture to them, like Homer Simpson working at the nuclear plant.

2) Haggard confesses that he has some life-long struggles that he warred with. It's a tragedy that,evidently, he did not have the non-judgmental pastoral support system to lay open his life to help him in his struggles;therefore his public persona as leader and the American "Great Man" image of
perfection which many Christians ascribe to took over and had to be sustained. But his real person is still there and there is an attempt to segment one's personality which will fail. It's not simply about wrong choices, lies and deception. In reality,the "acting out" is often the result of the pressure to maintain this hoax and the lies and deception to cover the false self. The greatest sin,in a sense, here is hubris. This way of being is more in line with the pretense and idolatry of Roman Imperial hubris and the cult of the emperors, which was both political and religious. The way of the cross and resurrection is diametrically opposed to this false Christian triumphalist vision of human personhood.Read 2 Corinthians 10-12,where Paul, living in light of the life of Jesus, boasts in his anti-resume of weakness, over against the so-called super apostles who claim to wield God-like powers through the Holy Spirit so that the Corinthians (and they!) see them as they would see the ruling powers of the Greco-Roman world,but in Jesus.To Paul this is anti-Christ.Paul boasts of his weakness so that God's power can rest on him, that he would know Jesus in his suffering so that GOD would raise him,not that he would receive worldly acclaim and power. We actually need to read and critically reflect upon the Bible prayerfully and honestly. This is the tragedy of this situation.

The Haggard is sad (and tragic) on many fronts. The discourse has occluded some real interesting points:the real danger and ambivalence of the political realm for believers,and the implicit pastoral theology that undergirds many sectors of Christianity.

1) It's no accident that before Jesus was sent on his mission he was put through a time of trial, facing the wiles of Satan, not some cartoonish figure bit the spirit of this Age that dominates through the deceiving and appealing use of power, prestige,worldly wealth and hubris. Jesus faced this in his context, being promised the oikumene ("world," that, is the Roman Empire) if Jesus worshipped him. We live in this Age and we are fallen, whether "saved and filled with the Holy Spirit," atheist or Satanist;thus no one is immune from being caught up and blinded by worldly power and one's focus being taken away from God as one's life-giving and life-sustaining power in all aspects of life. If there's a maxin that should be in the Bible it is the one that says, 'Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely'. For Rev. Haggard, who started off as one motivated by God's Spirit and his person and ministry born of God's power, ends up viewing himself and thus his actions as an extension of his public self as Evangelical leader and leader in the culture wars. Then one cares more about Machiavellian concerns and not about the unity of person and persona,the integration of which in the acceptance of our common humanity in our falleness and absolute need for God's mercy everyday and, by extension, a more generous view of humanity at large as the recipient of God's mercy. Evangelicals want to exercise worldly power to effect godly change but it's a very dangerous and risky venture to them, like Homer Simpson working at the nuclear plant.

2) Haggard confesses that he has some life-long struggles that he warred with. It's a tragedy that,evidently, he did not have the non-judgmental pastoral support system to lay open his life to help him in his struggles;therefore his public persona as leader and the American "Great Man" image of
perfection which many Christians ascribe to took over and had to be sustained. But his real person is still there and there is an attempt to segment one's personality which will fail. It's not simply about wrong choices, lies and deception. In reality,the "acting out" is often the result of the pressure to maintain this hoax and the lies and deception to cover the false self. The greatest sin,in a sense, here is hubris. This way of being is more in line with the pretense and idolatry of Roman Imperial hubris and the cult of the emperors, which was both political and religious. The way of the cross and resurrection is diametrically opposed to this false Christian triumphalist vision of human personhood.Read 2 Corinthians 10-12,where Paul, living in light of the life of Jesus, boasts in his anti-resume of weakness, over against the so-called super apostles who claim to wield God-like powers through the Holy Spirit so that the Corinthians (and they!) see them as they would see the ruling powers of the Greco-Roman world,but in Jesus.To Paul this is anti-Christ.Paul boasts of his weakness so that God's power can rest on him, that he would know Jesus in his suffering so that GOD would raise him,not that he would receive worldly acclaim and power. We actually need to read and critically reflect upon the Bible prayerfully and honestly. This is the tragedy of this situation.

This is a very good post Wolf, the problem is as you stated when evangeclicals try to use worldly power to effect Godly change.
It just doesn't work that way, leave until Ceasar the things that are Ceasar's and until God the things that are of God,s.

AX, I didn't go to yahoo, i did a search on MSNBC (not a conservative network, btw) and got an article that said that. Anybody trying to connect this situation to Bush is reaching, horribly.

Expand your search man.