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Digress away,

"Who Stole Feminism" by Cristina Hoff Summer tells an intelligent tale about what happens when a vital social movement achieves its goals as an advocacy movement (meaning that further improvement is possible- but the need for political intervention has passed) and is then grotesquely twisted to fill the empty lives of an increasingly fanatical minority who need to find an outlet to deal with personal issues.

The same can be said for other movements as well.

Someone is going to misread this and go off- but oh well. I said it as carefully and succinctly as possible- so to hell with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1319973)

Yes, the similarity is that some people find all these things to be offensive. Are you going to try and tell me that your being offended is worht more than someone else being offended? That's pretty darned arrogant.
No. I said that comparing the issue of abortion to racism does not make any sense. Now, of course this is my opinion. People debate about whether abortion is right or wrong. When it comes the issue of racism, IT IS CLEARY WRONG! LOL That's what I'm saying.

People opposed to abortion (again, I'm not one of them, but I think this is a great example {if you say so...})believe that abortion is the same as killing babies. What you are saying is that it's okay to offend someone who thinks you're promoting baby killing (never said that), but an action which states nothing racist, but makes you feel they had racial intentions (it was inappropriate) is not okay? Those are some interesting lines you've drawn there.

So you'd like the government to protect you from things which offend people? Or just things which offend only you?

I could careless actually.

You're asking for the government to close an organization which can't even directly be connected to the event. Their only connection was that these (two?) kids were members and they were doing something which caused contraversy. So far, you nor anyone has been able to show the fact that Chi Phi is directly responsible for this.

I don't believe any org should be closed. I hate seeing that. They should be punished however.

You'd have the University penalize the entire organization without a shred of proof other than circumstance and speculation just because some probationary members did something maybe on their own accord which angered you. Am I not accurate?

Those probationary MEMBERS represent Chi Phi. There are some things that you just don't do when you are representing a national organization. Actions must take place. Chi Phi IS responsible for the actions of their PROBATIONARY MEMBERS and they must be accountable for them.

People! These are grown @ss men! Let them be accountable for their actions! LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinerbock (Post 1320018)

Why does it happening at UGA have anything to do with it?

The fact that YOU even said something....

Y'all are on feminism now? Wow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyPiNK_FL (Post 1320235)

Why would you assume that because I take Women's Studies classes that A) it is my major and future career path and B) I am a hairy person? I am NOT a feminist, but I do identify with many of the issues that they tackle because I am a woman. We are learning in our course how many woman avoid feminism because people (like yourself for example) like to make negative and offensive remarks that broadly stereotype their physical characteristics, sexuality, and career choices. We are also discussing how men (the dominant class) use "scare tactics" like your words above to discourage (whether knowingly doing so or not) women from defending their rights because of the dominant patriachal society that has been with us since the dawn of man/woman. I don't have a problem with ANYONE taking their clothes off to make money, but I do have a problem with someone feeling that it is okay to expose these pictures to those who are not willing viewers. Even now if someone wants to debate whether it's sexist or racist, that's fine, they have the right to do so. But I (as is ME MYSELF AND I AND NOT SPEAKING FOR ANY OTHER PERSON BUT MYSELF) firmly believe that tolerance of such acts (like the ones committed), if not addressed and immediately dealt with, give the impression that behavior like this is okay. And it's NOT OKAY.

Girl I don't even know why you answered him. LOL

at least get paid for the pr0n

Quote:

Originally Posted by starang21 (Post 1320415)

at least get paid for the pr0n

LOL!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul D-Psi-ple (Post 1320369)

Y'all are on feminism now? Wow.

What do you mean by this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul D-Psi-ple (Post 1320362)

Those probationary MEMBERS represent Chi Phi. There are some things that you just don't do when you are representing a national organization. Actions must take place. Chi Phi IS responsible for the actions of their PROBATIONARY MEMBERS and they must be accountable for them.

So when Chi Phi accepted these guys as pledges, the chapter assumed responsibility for every thing any pledge does? Remarkable.

If two underage, probationary members of your chapter are caught drinking in their dorm rooms or on the sidewalk, should your whole chapter be held accountable and punished?

Quote:

Originally Posted by starang21 (Post 1320415)

at least get paid for the pr0n

Lol for once I like one of your responses!

Quote:

No. I said that comparing the issue of abortion to racism does not make any sense. Now, of course this is my opinion. People debate about whether abortion is right or wrong. When it comes the issue of racism, IT IS CLEARY WRONG! LOL That's what I'm saying.

Not so long ago, this statement was not true. I'm not sure it's even true today. There are some folks who think racism is perfectly alright, that their race is superior to the other(s), etc. They might not call it racism, but "white supremacy," or folks that believe in the melanin theory, etc.

Quote:

People opposed to abortion (again, I'm not one of them, but I think this is a great example [/b]{if you say so...}[/b])believe that abortion is the same as killing babies. What you are saying is that it's okay to offend someone who thinks you're promoting baby killing (never said that), but an action which states nothing racist, but makes you feel they had racial intentions (it was inappropriate) is not okay? Those are some interesting lines you've drawn there.

Okay, so you think that the group rallying for abortion rights ought to be punished for their views if they offend others? Because if you say you "never said that," then you must be supportive of the idea of punishing ANY offensive speach. The trouble with that is that what is offensive to one person is not offensive to another. Where do you want to draw the line? Would you punish Christians rallying against homosexual rights? Or would you punish homosexuals rallying against Christians? Israelis protesting terrorist activities? Or would you punish Palestinian students for protesting the Israeli occupation?

You don't seem to mind punishing some speach, so which speach is okay, and which isn't? Are you the one who gets to decide this? Also, what makes you think that this is racism? The picture is of a black woman. So what? Are all pictures of black women racist?

Quote:

What type of 'actions' would you have take place? I appreciate that you are offended, but besides you, who should care about your being offended? Why Chi Phi? Why not also punish the French Club if these guys are members of that as well?

I don't mean to sound harsh. I appreciate your responses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1320246)

At many institutions, the students AND instructors/faculty member(s) in charge would be subject to disciplinary action.

ETA: No TAs with a grain of brain and ethics would think up such an exercise for undergraduates. But if they did, they would be smart enough to consult the sociology department and Institutional Review Board (IRB) beforehand.

I have to disagree a little bit. I have done two such experiments for sociology classes in high school and college. They were more open ended though. They did not specifically tell us to show porn to people or anything like that, but we were all supposed to do something deviant in public. The instructors and TA's told us before we began, that if students broke any laws, those same students would be fully liable. So if people get arrested, beat up, or punished for their actions in the experiment, it's their own fault.

In this case, I could care less to a point. I'm kind of glad that those Chi Phi pledges are seeing their first amendment rights cut up and used against them. I kind of think about what would have happened a few decades ago if some Black students, greek or not, had pulled that same kind of stunt with a Playboy or something. Even if it was perfectly legal, I shudder to think of how severely they would have been dealt with by students and staff alike.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk (Post 1320269)

I don't want to argue it here

Good idea. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EE-BO (Post 1320331)

What did you supposedly say carefully and succinctly? Translation please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhrozenGod01 (Post 1320477)

They did not specifically tell us to show porn to people or anything like that. The instructors and TA's told us before we began, that if students broke any laws, those same students would be fully liable. So if people get arrested, beat up, or punished for their actions in the experiment, it's their own fault.

Then you don't really disagree with me.

The law holds the students accountable but the institutions hold the (students and) TAs/faculty accountable. Been there, done that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul D-Psi-ple (Post 1320369)

Y'all are on feminism now? Wow.

We're actually still "on" (racial and) gendered stereotypes.

Forest through the trees, and all that good stuff.