I understand your point of view. I even agree with substantial parts of it.

Unfortunately, the stuff is still illegal.

Argue for the rest of your life, but if the laws don't change, chapters will still close, insurance rates will still go up and the Greek System will still suffer.

Strong, established chapters aren't going to close over the things that I listed..........

.........can't say i've ever heard of a chapter closing over house cleans, pledge reviews, and making your pledges wear tucked in polos, slacks, and closed toed shoes.

Yeah, well BOOOO to you for quoting that Chicken Noodle Soup song in your sig. What happened to the Tucker Carlson devotion?

Forget this crap. Is simplygreek.com still around? I was royalty there.

NEW?? He's been around since 2004....if he's new, what does that make you???

I'll get back to Tucker Carlson. I wanted to give his heiny a rest for a couple of days. ;)

Simplygreek is around but no one posts there. Stay away from it...it's da debul!!!!

New to the thread-they seem to be thankful that I politly reminded them to read the thread from the start....did you?
Or did you just hit "new post" and not care what you jumped into?;) :D

He said new to the thread. :)

On that note, AlphaFrog, I would like for you to re-read jon's post, draft another reply to him, and tell me what you think of hazing...again. :)

Thank you--I think LOL:) :confused: ;)

wow. the one day I don't wake & bake.

That's not how I read his post...it just struck me as funny that someone who's been here for 3 months is calling someone else new...oh well.

It's been awhile since I've read this thread from the beginning...but I don't think I've ever given my personal thoughts on hazing before. I said my group doesn't haze, but that doesn't necessarily mean that represents my personal view on hazing.

If you would like to know, for the hell of it, I think we've taken the non-hazing WAY too far in the other direction. You can't even do things in good fun anymore. They USED to string the house for Bigs (you take a skein of yarn and run it up and down and all throughout the house, and then the pledge follows the yarn to find out who their big sister is...) but they can't even do THAT anymore, because it could be hazing. Physical harm, alcohol, and eating non-edible things are one thing, but harmless games for fun that are now considered hazing are ridiculous. But, one person's "harmless" is another person's hazing, so we just take all the fun out of it, and no one has a problem.:rolleyes:

I feel ya a little bit on that. During undergrad, I was a new student weekend leader. At the retreat for the incoming freshmen, there was to be a trust walk. When I was an incoming freshman, they blindfolded us and walked us all around as a group to hear cool sound effects and end up at a place to watch a beautiful sunset. The year I was a leader, a bunch of other leaders complained that blindfolding was hazing. They said that the new students should just close their eyes. I laughed out loud in the planning meeting. With the number of leaders, adults, and camp staff at the retreat, I was 100% sure that no one would get hazed or even complain about it. The retreat was at a campground, not in someone's basement. I didn't argue too much because I didn't want anyone thinking I was pro-hazing, but it seemed like we (the leaders) actually were the ones trusting the new students to not open up their eyes and undermine the excitement and beauty of the event. It wasn't the biggest deal, but I didn't know people really thought like that.

He typed "thread."

Oh well, the rest of my post to you was a play on jon's posts to Phrozen. ;)

When I think of hazing I think of mostly lineups (PT). There are also kidnappings, mind games, scavenger hunts, interviews, formal intros, etc. Never are the pledges beat in any way, made to drink excessive alcohol, or anything stupid along those lines.

Let me ask you non-hazing moguls a question. You all agree that learning history, respecting the house, respecting actives, behaving and dressing like a gentleman, etc are all important aspects of pledging. What are the onsequences if your pledges don't learn all the history? Fail tests? Have a lack of respect? What are the consequences for them not doing what you ask?

They aren't initiated. Or they're depledged. If you don't want to learn the history and you fail the test, you probably don't want to be there bad enough.

You are in a sorrority and to my knowledge not an IFC one. I dont think hazing is necessary for sorrorities whatsoever.

Fraternity pledges will not respect you unless there is discipline and reprocusions. They expect a journey, earn the right of passage, etc. Something they can be proud of when they complete it. If it's all study hours and corny history, they will not respect the chapter or its actives. Then you are stuck with slapdick actives that won't work for the chapter. That is my opinion, and I'm sure 99% of fraternity men in prominent southern chapters will agree with me.