yeah, what he said :)

i totally agree with him

i have to agree with sirhornytoad and a.e.B.O.T. i don't understand why drinking is such a serious thing that people can't imaging not doing it for some amount of time. is drinking sooo important in your life that you can't go without it for a few weeks months or a semester? because if so, then that's a whole different topic for another type of board. i mean we are talking about adding something...which is a pretty big time committment to your school studies. we're in undergrad to GRADUATE...not to drink.

it's amazing to me reading how being prohibited from drinking during the new member period is so heinous...but i've heard and seen from a lot of organizations almost mandatory drinking. i've seen a distinct difference...and i'm speaking from what i've seen...between the cultural orgs (nphc, multicultural,
latina, ect.) than from ifc/npc. some of the ifc/npc groups on campus at my alma matter promoted drinking for their new members/pledges/associates, whatever you want to call them. the girls on my floor...definately not of drinking age...were always coming home from their various sorority events drunk and being given gifts of alcohol from their big sisters. at my school at least..it was public knowledge which groups made their pledges drink in the basement before socials or in general force alcohol on them. and these same people though that the orgs that prohibited drinking were hazing. maybe it's in the eye of the beholder...but i think it's hazing to lock someone in the basement with a keg and make them drink it and it's illegal to provide alcohol to your all freshman class of new members. maybe it's because it's more "fun" for some to drink than not...who knows?

No one in this thread advocates forcing new members to drink. This may be your personal experience but TRUST me when I say that this is NOT the viewpoint that we are coming from.

Rather, I respect the right of a new member to control her own life. Banning drinking during the pledge period does not promote good study habits- only the promotion of GOOD study habits promotes scholarship. Telling someone who is 21 years of age that they may not enjoy a beer on a Friday night will not make their grades improve nor will it enhance their dedication to their organization.

Requiring a pledge to wear a pledge pin 24/7 doesn't teach that pledge anything either, just like how you describe a dry pledge period.

Anyway....this is getting stale. We're right, you're right, we all scream for ice cream.

I'm out - late. Rack 'em.

Who in the hell requires a pledge to wear a pledge pin 24/7? That's ridiculous.

I say we kill this thread... agree to disagree ok? Both side made valued points and there is no point to get everyone's panties in a twist over a brick wall... so why dont we just end this discussion. Im sorry I brought it up

If Your IHQ has a restictive Code in Thier Constituton about what is Hazing, follow it.

If there is any doubt, contact them. Sound Harsh, just find out if You screw up.

Each and everyones thoughts on Hazing actually mean little.

We as Greeks are losing to may Chapters because of Stupidity.

Which in turn raise Risk Management Insuarance, what @ % ? How much Cheaper would it be if not for dumb stuff.

Any and All Reflect Upon all of us!:(

See, this is another thing, I think a lot of things are getting mixed up. It's like the belief that there's a brothel law. Just because none of the sororities have houses doesn't mean that there's something saying sororities can't - it's because the fraternities sucked up all the available land first.

If I'm not mistaken most if not all of the pledges on Xylochick's campus are underage anyway, so they shouldn't be allowed to drink at sorority events. But this isn't because they're pledges, it's because they're under 21. The underage sisters shouldn't be drinking either. Because I guarantee you...if you asked any NPC HQ they would definitely say forbidding NMs to do something legal was hazing. I think over the years people have transformed things into something they weren't to begin with.

I can think of one sorority (non-NPC) that does...and trust me, you don't want to see the consequence if your caught without it! *Shudders*


Oh and on a side note....alcohol can not hinder the "learning" process that is involved during pledging unless you are consuming the alcohol as you are learning. Drinking a beer or what not (if ur over 21) on the weekend can not in any way hinder anything that you've learned, and if it does, then you have to something much bigger to worry about.

No one is getting their "panties in a twist" except maybe you. Seems to me like this is a fairly intelligent discussion. Except that I don't really think I'm wrong :p

there is no reason to be mean... Both sides are just arguing the same damn thing over and over... both being stubborn... so dont make fun of my attempt to hault and already finished discussion and in such a rude manner

Yea, because noones ever messed up and not made grades because they were partying it up 5 nights a week. In life you make sacrafices and if an org asks you to not drink during a period of education then honestly I think that not only is that a good thing but even more its for thier own good. Rules like this weren't created for the one person that maybe once will stop at a resturant and have dinner and beer with it, rather these rules are in place for the 3 or 4 other pledges that are going to go and party every night of the week when they should be focusing on thier school work and thier pledging assignments/information.

Awww. Sensitive :rolleyes:

A. If pledges are underage, they will not likely have the resources to be partying five nights a week, unless your own brothers are supplying this alcohol to them. And in that case, I would suggest that they stop :D

B. Instead of making a rule that infringes upon the rights of those who DO have a sense of moderation, why not rely on your internal standards procedures? Hopefully if you chose wisely during selection, you would aim to avoid new members who drink to excess and neglect their studies and responsibilities- but we all know this isn't always possible. So why wouldn't the pledgemaster/new member educator/head of standards take the responsibility of loosely monitoring the grades, class attendance, nights out, alcohol consumed of the pledges? If someone begins to show signs of a problem that might eventually effect their GPA or their work within your org., you could then sit them down and have a talk with them about the consequences of their actions and then ask them to slow down on the drinking. This way, the conversation about alcohol abuse comes from BROTHERLY CONCERN, not dictating what pledges may and may not do.

I know you all are just talking about GLOs, but I like to take a holistic approach to certain GLO topics:

Everything we do or become a part of limits or controls our life to some extent. In fact, you just mentioned a GLO code of standards and that serves to both limit and control in the name of upholding certain standards. This isn't unique to our greek lettered organizations. There are various rites of passage in our lives that prohibit people from doing certain things during certain phases even if they can legally do so. That could be another tangent because I think the definition of hazing is way too broad.

This is an interesting discussion and extremely good points are raised on both sides.