Hope
 

I guess this is a little off-topic, but I am wondering how it is that "poor" folks have no hope? I'm not being facetious here. I'm not a sociologist, a social worker, an educator or a researcher in this field, so I'm hoping that those who are can help me understand.

From my anecdotal knowledge of black folks here in America, the one thing we've always had, when we had nothing else, was hope. When we saw our family being sold, raped and killed, we had hope. We were spit on, attacked by dogs, strung up on trees yet we had hope. When we sat in the cattle cars of trains, drank at dirty water fountains and had to share one book in an entire k-6 classroom, still hope resounded. How is it now that we have no hope?

Do we not have hope because we don't have many adult role models in our family that hold us accountable as children to high standards? Is it because we cannot translate what we see on TV/film (interesting jobs, various locales, other options and places and things outside of our current environment) to be someone's and possibly our, reality? Is it because we have devalued education to such an extent that we no longer look at it as a tool to provide hope? Do we not aspire to be more than a young mother, a rapper/artist, an athlete, a member of the underground economy? Do we not have hope simply because we ran out of it?

Again, I'm not trying to make sweeping generalizations, although it may sound like it. I'm just trying to understand when and how the shift from "hope even in the face of hopeless situations to "hopeless in spite of hopeful opportunities" occurred. More importantly, what can we (and I do on a personal level) to help get it back?

A people without hope are doomed.

I'm going to have to disagree
 

First, in regards to the question of hope in the black community: I think that what RBL might mean is that many poor African Americans do not see life in "mainstream society" (i.e. a college education, house in the burbs w/white picket fence, 2.5 kids and a station wagon) as a reality for them. I don't think that they have hope for obtaining many of the specific goals that my be an expectation for middle or upper class families. Here's an example: I just graduated from school in a college town that has a very poor African American community. One of the organizations that I was in while a student was geared towards motivating African American high school students to attend college. We found that although this town has the university name plastered all over it and although the university's culture is ingrained in almost every aspect of this community, many of the African American high school students never considered going to college before. When we asked them why they didn't plan on attending college they said things like, "I didn't think that I could afford it" "No one in my family ever went to college before" "None of my friends have gone to college" "My counselors haven't told me ANYTHING about my options or how to apply". Now I'm not saying that they have no hope for a happy life, but in regards to attanding college they truly didn't believe that it was a possibility for them. I think that this is the sort of hopelessness that RBL is referring to.

Second, I do see a lot of truth in Bill Cosby's message in as much as poor grammar and misplaced priorities will not elevate you from your current position (unless of course you're a rapper). However, I feel that Bill Cosby is implying that the lower class of America realize that their priorities are out of wack and that their grammar is a mess, but yet they choose not to make a change. I just don't buy that. It seems to me that if everyone around you values expensive gym shoes and uses slang, then you might not know that this is not the way that life should be. I agree with the people who stated the value of positive role models in the community. If kids never see what is right, then how would they know or have the desire to break free of the patterns that are all around them? I know that many people spoke about how well they were raised in spite of their poor upbringing. I can feel them b/c my mom and her siblings we raised well inspite of their poor environment too. However, after working w/my mom (a teacher) in the public school system, I can say that this is not really a reality for the majority of the kids. Many do have parents who are concerned and are instilling proper values, but many many more do not. So these kids need to see that there is a different way of life than the one that they have been shown.

Lastly, it seems to me that poor people have the greatest odds to overcome in breaking free from their current state, yet they have the least resources and support to do so. So why is it surprising that this community is struggling? It is most definitely a grass roots effort b/c it involves not just providing financial assistance, but really working one on one to change their state of mind.

Marie

On the Tavis Smiley show he defends himself pretty well. Cornell West also defended him passionately on the radio show. Just in case any of you were interested in watching a rerun or whatnot.

-Rudey

I saw that. A lot of what was reported (in general when the story first came out) was reported out of context.

Mr. Cosby also talked out those Af. Am. that leave the community and NEVER look back as well.

I THINK Tavis said this morning on TJMS that it will air tonight. I'm not certain, but I THINK that's what he said. :confused:

SPeaking from personal point of view
 

Personally, I always valued education. I have tried my best (like many of us) to erase the things that would make us look ignorant. As an afr. american I do believe we should do more to help our kids.

I agree with Mr. Cosby. But we always talk about someone should do this or do that. What are we doing to help.

I am the eldest of four kids--b4 my sister died it was five. Now not counting the two that are under 18, I am the only one who went to college. The two siblings near me let what they thought was right pull them out of the right path. Whether it was the fault of my parents, influences from others or just plain idoicy, they made the wrong decision.

And its hell getting back to the plane where you should be. My brother is now seeing the struggle it is to survive--his gf is graduating college this year and she has done her best to educate herself outside the class room.

Unfortunately for some people, being black is being ignorant. Its up to us to make a stand and so I am successful and I am black.
Now whether or not there are role models for these children is irrelevant, in my case, the two under 18 have a role model in me and they still refuse to do right. And its heartbreaking. We all come from the same place and neither one of them want to make something of themselves.

My defense is for the parents who do try to train their kids in the light they need to go. But we also have to remember because there is one bad seed, doesn't spoil the rest.

That's my two cents...

The Cos, unbowed
 

By:GEORGE E. CURRY, NNPA Editor-in-Chief
May 27, 2004
WASHINGTON - Comedian Bill Cosby has declined to retract remarks that were highly critical of "the lower economic" African-Americans that he claims are willing to pay $500 for sneakers but not half that amount for educational tools.

At ceremonies here last week commemorating the 50th
anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education Supreme Court
decision outlawing "separate but equal" schools, Cosby's remarks
caught many in the audience by surprise.

With NAACP President Kwesi Mfume, NAACP Legal Defense and
Educational Fund President Ted Shaw and many other Black dignitaries looking on, Cosby complained that "the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal."

He said, "These people are not parenting. They are buying things for their kids - $500 sneakers for what? And won't spend $200
for 'Hooked on Phonics.'...They're standing on the corner and they
can't speak English. I can't even talk the way these people talk:
Why you ain't,' Where you is'...And I blamed the kid until I heard
the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk...Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads...You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth."

In Atlanta on Sunday, author and cultural critic Michael Eric
Dyson called Cosby wrong for using the fund raiser to criticize
poor people. While acknowledging Cosby's generous philanthropy to historically black institutions, Dyson said a better use of the platform would have been to criticize national public policy for failing to give poor people enough support.

Cosby cited a 50 percent dropout rate for Blacks. However,
according to the National Center for Education Statistics, the
dropout rate for African-Americans was 13.1 percent in 2000, the
last year for which statistics are available.

Cosby's comments about education were made in the larger context of African-Americans having to struggle to desegregate schools 50 years ago and seeing many youth today who will not take advantage of those sacrifices. (ST-- This I agree with. People didn't get shot at and beat up so some of us can act a fool, JMO.) He pleaded with those present to take back the Black
community.

The comedian declined to acknowledge the existence of political
prisoners.
"These are not political criminals," he said. "These are people
going around stealing Coca Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake, and then we run out and we are outraged, saying 'The cops shouldn't have shot him.' What the hellwas he doing with the pound cake in his hand?"

Cosby claims that some of his comments were taken out of context. Excerpts of the remarks can be heard on the Washington Post's Web site, www.washingtonpost.com, and it appears that Cosby was quoted accurately.

Milwaukee Journal Sentinel columnist Eugene Kane wrote a column noting that like Cosby, he was born in North Philadelphia and attended Temple University.

"Given his record as a philanthropist who had donated millions to
black colleges and black causes in general, Cosby has certainly
earned the right to speak his mind." He continued, "Still, there's a
sense of uneasiness whenever somebody like Cosby uses the same language some whites use to justify their racism....Particularly, the idea that poor blacks and their children weigh down the rest of society, or that every black person behind bars deserves to be incarcerated. Sure, some blacks may fit that description, not all. Some white people, too."(ST -- good point)

Kane wrote, "He's not a poor Black mother raising children in the
inner city, so he has no idea how difficult that is in 2004 America.
And if the TV star really wants to pass moral judgments on poor
black women, ahem, Mr. Cosby, there is a little matter of you having an out-of-wedlock child yourself.":p

After reading the column, Cosby telephoned Kane. The columnist said that in an hour-long discussion, Cosby explained that he did not intend to smear all poor Blacks.

"I didn't say all black people from the lower classes were to
blame," Kane said Cosby told him. "But I said that when you have a 50 percent graduation rate, and some people can't put two sentences together, and can't write or spell...you've got people who have put themselves on a track to failure."

As for Autumn Jackson, who claims to be Cosby's out-of-wedlock
daughter, the comedian told Kane that she has repeatedly refused his offer to take a paternity test.

In the interview with Kane, Cosby deplored the glorification of a
pimp mentality, placing more emphasis on athletics than academics and celebrating rap videos on BET.

"I am talking about parenting. It is time for us to turn the mirror
around. We have to take back the neighborhood."

And he reiterated his comment about the misuse of the English
language.

"We can't excuse these people," Cosby said. "There are generations who have been born here and their English is worse than Koreans who have just been here a few years."

The following are additional excerpts from Cosby's speech:



"I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit. Where were you when he was 2? Where were you when he was 12? Where were you when he was 18 and how come you didn't know that he had a pistol? And where is the father? . . .

"The church is only open on Sunday and you can't keep asking Jesus to do things for you. You can't keep saying that God will find a way. God is tired of you," Cosby declared to loud applause.

"I wasn't there when God was saying it, I am making this up, but it sounds like what God would say. In all of this work we can not blame white people. White people don't live over there; they close up the shop early. The Korean ones don't know us well enough, so they stay open 24 hours."

On fashion: "People putting their clothes on backwards: Isn't that a sign of something gone wrong? . . . People with their hats on
backwards, pants down around the crack, isn't that a sign of
something, or are you waiting for Jesus to pull his pants up? Isn't
it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up to the crack and got all type of needles [piercings] going through her
body? What part of Africa did this come from? Those people are not Africans; they don't know a damn thing about Africa.

"With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap, and all of them are in jail. Brown versus the Board of
Education is no longer the white person's problem. We have got to take the neighborhood back. We have to go in there -- forget about telling your child to go into the Peace Corps -- it is right around the corner. They are standing on the corner and they can't speak English."

On sports heroes: "Basketball players -- multimillionaires -- can't
write a paragraph. Football players -- multimillionaires -- can't
read. Yes, multimillionaires. Well, Brown versus Board of Education: Where are we today? They paved the way, but what did we do with it? That white man, he's laughing. He's got to be laughing: 50 percent drop out, the rest of them are in prison."

On teenage sex: "Five, six children -- same woman -- eight, 10
different husbands or whatever. Pretty soon you are going to have DNA cards to tell who you are making love to. You don't know who this is. It might be your grandmother. I am telling you, they're young enough! Hey, you have a baby when you are 12; your baby turns 13 and has a baby. How old are you? Huh? Grandmother! By the time you are 12 you can have sex with your grandmother, you keep those numbers coming. I'm just predicting. . . .

"What is it -- young girls getting after a girl who wants to remain
a virgin? Who are these sick black people and where do they come from and why haven't they been parented to shut up? This is a sickness, ladies and gentlemen."

Is it just me...
 

I watched Tavis last night. I also, read the article that Soror ST just posted. The whole time I was watching and reading (I apologize in advance if I offend someone), but I kept wondering which brand of crack he was smoking. He was going on and on. He managed to make a couple of valid points here and there, but a great deal of it was muddled and confused. He was just ranting and raving.

Also, he looked like he just rolled out of bed. If you are making assumptions about people based on how they dress (a backward caps does not speak to your level of intelligence), I would think that Cos was one of those old Black men standing on the corner complaining about stuff.

Please lay off Cosby, he's getting up there in age...and you you know old people just give it to you straight no sugar or cream. What Cosby said is something that should have been said years ago, now I'm fully aware that there are other reasons for the plight of Black America. However it we all took more personal responsibity and remember it all starts with us then and only then can we reach our true potential.

More of the Cos...
 

I'm not mad at the cos...not one bit.

>Bill Cosby, Back by Popular Demand
>
>* In fiery remarks last week in Washington, Bill Cosby took the black
>community to task for parental failures that he says have led to high
>dropout rates, crime and other social ills. After we published brief
>excerpts of his cultural critique -- delivered at a gala marking the
>50th anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education desegregation ruling
>-- several readers called for more. Conservative broadcasters seized upon
>Cosby's remarks, but he was unrepentant in an interview yesterday
>with The Post's Hamil Harris: "Do I not make a move to speak to the people
>that I love?" he said.
>
>He plans to continue preaching his tough gospel, which was motivated, he
>said, by District Police Chief Charles Ramsey, who earlier this year
>called on the community to do a better job of parenting.
>
>NAACP Executive Director Kweisi Mfume said he agreed with "most of what
>Cosby said" and hugged him after the speech. "He said what needed to be
>said," Mfume said.
>
>"I was talking to the movers and shakers," Cosby emphasized yesterday.
>Here's more Cos, as tape-recorded by Harris Monday night:
>
>"I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there
>in an orange suit. Where were you when he was 2? Where were you when he
>was 12? Where were you when he was 18 and how come you didn't
>know that he had a pistol? And where is the father?
>
>"The church is only open on Sunday and you can't keep asking Jesus to do
>things for you. You can't keep saying that God will find a way. God is
>tired of you," Cosby declared to loud applause.
>
>"I wasn't there when God was saying it, I am making this up, but it sounds
>like what God would say. In all of this work we can not blame white
>people. White people don't live over there; they close up the shop early.
>The Korean ones don't know us well enough, so they stay open 24 hours."
>
>On fashion: "People putting their clothes on backwards: Isn't that a sign
>of something gone wrong? . . . People with their hats on backwards, pants
>down around the crack, isn't that a sign of something, or are you
>waiting for Jesus to pull his pants up? Isn't it a sign of something when
>she has her dress all the way up to the crack and got all type of needles
>[piercing] going through her body? What part of Africa did this
>come from? Those people are not Africans; they don't know a damn thing
>about Africa.
>
>"With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap, and
>all of them are in jail. Brown versus the Board of Education is no longer
>the white person's problem. We have got to take the neighborhood
>back. We have to go in there -- forget about telling your child to go into
>the Peace Corps -- it is right around the corner. They are standing on the
>corner and they can't speak English."
>
>On sports heroes: "Basketball players -- multimillionaires -- can't write
>a paragraph. Football players -- multimillionaires -- can't read.
>Yes, multimillionaires. Well, Brown versus Board of Education: Where are
>we today? They paved the way, but what did we do with it? That white man,
>he's laughing. He's got to be laughing: 50 percent drop out, the rest of
>them are in prison."
>
>On teenage sex: "Five, six children -- same woman -- eight, 10 different
>husbands or whatever. Pretty soon you are going to have DNA cards to tell
>who you are making love to. You don't know who this is. It might be
>your grandmother. I am telling you, they're young enough! Hey, you have a
>baby when you are 12; your baby turns 13 and has a baby. How old are you?
>Huh? Grandmother! By the time you are 12 you can have sex with your
>grandmother, you keep those numbers coming. I'm just predicting. . . .
>
>"What is it -- young girls getting after a girl who wants to remain a
>virgin? Who are these sick black people and where do they come from and
>why haven't they been parented to shut up? This is a sickness, ladies and
>gentlemen."

Also wanted to throw out there that he said that he's been saying this stuff for years. I think he said (I was too tired to remember) that nobody had said anything 6 years ago when he made the same remarks at Howard. And then he said people cared as soon as a white reporter put it in a white newspaper (washington post).

-Rudey

Re: Is it just me...
 

Remember I posted this back in 'o2?
Bill Cosby: What's wrong?
Posted on Tue, Jul. 02, 2002

Cosby's life no sitcom these days


Performer's recent behavior is causing friends, relatives to worry
By WILLIAM BUNCH
bunchw@phillynews.com




Bill Cosby


SOMETHING wasn't quite right with Bill Cosby.

It happened just over a month ago, during his first five minutes on a concert stage in Austin, Texas. The audience fidgeted nervously as Cosby awkwardly stumbled over his attempted punchlines.

A critic for the Austin American Statesman wrote that Cosby "took his seat at center stage, and for the first five minutes struggled and sputtered." He said the comedian "talked, backtracked, stuttered. It was an odd moment..."


http://greekchat.com/gcforums/showth...ght=bill+cosby

Alzheimer's?

It's not uncommon to have confusion and behavioral changes like that in the early stages. It doesn't effect memory only, in contrary to popular belief.

TTT/L.A. Weekly
 

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/04/27/news-kaplan.php

This is a really good article about the impact of Cos' remarks. And here's a doozy of an excerpt. I edited it because I don't use the n-word.
The great thorn in the side of the black middle class that we curse in private but never in public for fear of denigrating the whole race — a very valid fear, by the way — is the hopeless intransigence of the lower class. It’s not just that folks don’t have money; Lord knows blacks, even the biggest conservatives, don’t blame each other for that. The anger is about people’s willingness to be n******. Cosby’s fellow comedian Chris Rock brought this up years ago in his now-famous dialectic about loving black people but hating n****** — those who felt license to live the low life, to openly scoff at education, brag about doing prison time and generally sabotage the nobler efforts of their own people at every turn. Rock exaggerated to make a point, but it was well taken among blacks that I know. Yet he knew that a big part of the problem was that American culture, as usual, minted the current image of the truly authentic Negro, and expects blacks to live up — or down — to it. He knew that American culture still views educated or well-spoken blacks as almost an affront to the get-down soul, to the purely instinctual that dictates everything from basketball to bad English to breaking into violence, that we all know and love (and sometimes fear — but that’s another story).

Rock, and now Cosby, argue that blacks have a choice in the matter of behavior, and too often it’s the wrong one. That’s true, but what Theodore Shaw implied about blacks not being responsible for their own hell forged by a long history is also true. So you have your pick of truth here, though they are by no means equal truths all the time. It would be infinitely more useful to examine the gray areas — of public policy, resource allocations and the like — rather than choose one of only two paths at a false crossroads.

I have read posts on this thread especially by RBL that have been, quite arguably, on point. However, I view Cosby's comments as a multi-tiered issue. On one level you have the disintegrating and degradation of the black community, which leads to parenting, education and a whole list of issues. However, the way in which we address those issues needs to be tackled with a different approach. Instead of pointing out the problems and pointing fingers, we need to attack the problems and come up with solutions. Ignorance is not just a 'lower-class" thing it is a human one.

Over the last 40 years, for instance, there has been a disparity in education not just in the Afro- American household. (American) education's problem is systematic and being that AA have been apart of that old system of racism, and neglectism, and any other type of isms you can think of, we (AA) have fallen victim to the system. Unfortunately, no one agrees on how to fix the system; therefore our public schools lose funding, teachers are overworked and underpaid, and students become less educated. And not just public schools charter and private schools as well. AA, in inner cities and rural areas, bear the brunt of these changes because the "system" of non-college prep courses, not being taught real skills and trades are oftentimes presented to them. For example, we'll teach them to be a beautician but we don't train them in how to manage/own one....ya feel me?

We constantly complain about education but what about the educated taking a more responsible role in being mentors to our children outside of rappers and athletes? A mentor can be a man/ woman who drives a bus, votes in every election, and cares for their community. Those are REAL role models. That's the foundation of education.
It's more than collecting millions of dollars at a ball sponsored by the black elite and giving it to a fund. Our communities need capable bodies physically present so that kids in our communities are influenced by what they see YOU do. Not only that, parents MUST play a vital role in the education of their children. It seems today, parenting is conditional...leaving SOME parents to say I can parent if i didn't work two jobs, if I didn't have 5 other kids and my grandbabies, if I wasn't so lazy....if if if.?!!!
We have been stereotyped so ridiculously;starting with the way we talk right down to the way we name our kids. There needs to be a new renaissance in our community because what's happening to us is not a "class" thing it's a culture thing.