http://www.ncei.com/WSJ-12898.htm

-Rudey

I am thinking of a specific program in NYC which resulted in thousands of older teachers retiring and new people being hired to fill their spots. I think it was in 1998, 1999, or 2000. Anyway, many of the younger new hires quit after a few months because they didn't realize how difficult teaching in NYC would be.

ETA: Maybe it was a part of a national program, but I am not certain.

A lot of those new teachers didn't exactly quit. The city's economic situation helped out.

-Rudey

No, they quit. I know that they downsized the Board/Department of Education, but some of the teachers hired through this program quit either before the school year ended or they didn't return the following year.

What is the basis of your opinion? Why do you assume the majority of hunger in this country is related to a drug problem? Why do you think that most kids are just looking for a reason not to do drugs? Why do you think that if a kid doesn't try drugs in middle school, they're pretty much set for life?


In my own life experiences I have seen no evidence to support your ideas, but I realize that we all have our different experiences. So, why do you think this way?

rudey, you love to blast your mouth off about things you just don't understand

i'm a teacher. i have my masters--which i had to take out $20000 in loans for (in addition to my undergrad loans), and is REQUIRED by the state to get within 5 years of getting a job. my masters isn't paid for, like many companies.

i don't work 9-5. i work until 11pm sometimes and definitely over the weekends. i spend almost $2000 of my own money on my classroom every year. which doesn't get reimbursed. have you ever had to buy pencils or paper for your office if you run out? we do. and it's not little things--chart paper is $20 each and i go through about a dozen a year. not reimbursed.

i don't get paid for the summers. my "time off", which is well deserved, is unpaid. i am a 9 month employee. i have to work 2 jobs over the summer to make ends meet. i COULD have the summer off, but then i wouldn't be able to live. lesson plans do NOT come right from a book. if i used book plans, i would be fired. they are a good starting point and can be used sometimes, but lesson plans have to be way more elaborate.

i can get fired in an instant with no reason. hence why tenure is important. if a parent is powerful and has a big mouth, he/she can get you fired, even if you did nothing wrong. i've seen it happen. then try to find another job after being fired from a teaching job--you can't because there's a stigma.

teaching jobs on long island are IMPOSSIBLE to come by. you have to know someone to get in, but still have to go through a massive interview process which often leads nowhere. some of my friends still have teaching assistant positions 4 years out of college.

i have to deal with parents constantly. my prep is spent on the phone or photocopying. my lunch is spent in my class doing things. i never sit down.

i make $48k, with 4 years of experience and a masters degree. that's NOT a lot of money. a small house in a not-so-great area goes for $400k. i will NEVER be able to afford a house on my salary alone.

i don't know who thinks $50k is a lot of money. it's a good amount, but nothing to raise a family on.

i LOVE my job. i'm NOT complaining. but PLEASE don't talk about things you don't know about first hand.

come to ny and you are welcome to observe my class for a day. i guarantee you'll change your tune.

(granted--i KNOW there are some bad teachers. not everyone is good)

-Rudey
--I guess I just don't understand

no, you clearly don't

i refuse to refute your "points" because it is pointless. and what "insults" are you referring to?

Telling me I blast my mouth off about things I don't understand is insulting. I could wrap you with points and statistics and you wouldn't care - why? Because you're a teacher. Frankly, I would do the same if I were you.

I don't claim all teachers are bad. I don't claim all teachers, or you, have it easy. But I do claim there are many bad teachers who do have it easy and unions that protect them. I also claim the more powerful the union, the worse off the kids are.

Personally I think you should look around you more and see you're not bad off. I wouldn't trade my problems for anyone else's and I don't think you would either.

-Rudey
--But you can claim everything I say is poppycock.

Also -- I forgot to ask this earlier -- where in the world did you go to high school, Rudey, where most teachers used scantron tests?

I think I only took scantron tests in one subject ever and that was science. And even then the majority of the teachers included a written section. In math they always wanted to see your work in order to get full credit. I had one math teacher who literally went through every single problem on every single assignment for each student in her 3 calc and 3 geometry classes to make sure they showed every step. In English and the social sciences teststhere was always an essay portion, most of the time a substantial one. Every history class I ever took required at least one ten-page paper a semester. English and foreign language classes above second year always had essays; some of them required monthly or even short weekly essays. Even science classes required essays for honors credit, and even if you didn't do the essay there was lab work.

I can see how your view of teachers would be a little warped if you went to a high school where scantron tests made up the majority of the work you did . . .

Plus even the worst teachers at my school changed their curriculum from year to year. My little sister's taking many of the same classes that I did in high school and most of them have at least one unit that's drastically different from anything that I did.

One of the top 5 public schools in the country. I also took 11 AP classes so don't think I got a crap education.

There were also lots of written sections but generally you know what to look for when you're correcting those things. It's not like oh hey let me read this essay and see if i like it, it's hey let me see if he mentions these three events.

My view on teachers is one based on a hell of a lot of numbers I just showed you and what I go out and read. I had good teachers and bad ones and none defined all teachers.

-Rudey
--If you rub clear chapstick along the black marks on the side of the scantron sheet, the machine can't mark it wrong I hear.

to keep the same exact lesson plan every year would defeat the process of learning; which, by definition, must always be updated

Seriously dude, do you have a book you pull these things from?

-Rudey

$50,000 isn't a lot...for NYC. I've known people who were paid $100K in the city (still, not much for the city), and moving to the South or Midwest resulted in a 50% pay cut...and guess what? They're able to make ends meet! What about in Mississippi, where the per capita income is somewhere in the high teens? 50K is almost wealthy in some areas. Let's not forget--the cost of living, and resultant income, is much higher in NYC than in most other areas of the country.

In my hometown, which has a cost of living 50% lower than that of NYC, teachers start out at 50K, and do quite well...especially when there are two teachers in a family. Two teachers living in a gulf-front house is not uncommon.

I may live here, but I totally admit that NYC is not the center of the world.

The median income in NYC is 39,285 and the mean is 59,500. The mean takes into account all the outliers in the finance industry that make 7 figures. Of course this value is less in the outer boroughs where real NY'ers are from - not the ones visiting and wanting to brag that they lived in NYC.

-Rudey