NOT NECESSARILY, SOROR...

PERSONALLY, I DON'T CARE IF A PERSON IS BLIND, CRIPPLED, OR CRAZY...

ONE HAS GONE TOO FAR IF THEIR IDEALS/SYMBOLS/ETC. ARE THE SAME OR 99.9%SIMILAR TO THAT OF AN ORGANIZATION ALREADY IN EXISTENCE.

SHUCKS, MY THING IS, DO YOUR OWN THING, BECOME CREATIVE...DON'T "BITE" OFF OF OTHERS. (Wellllllll, I guess it's too late, huh?) http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

SINCE WE KNOW THAT THE "RAINBOW" SUPPOSEDLY IDs GAYS/LESBIANS (I KNOW MANY A-A GAYS/LESBIANS THAT RECOGNIZE THE RAINBOW THING), THEN USE THAT, IF YOU ARE BLACK AND THINK THAT IT IS OF A WHITE THING, MAKE SURE THE BLACK, RED AND GREEN ARE CLOSE TOGETHER IN YOUR "RAINBOW"... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Again, Soror Wonderful, you can have your opinion on this matter, just as well as anyone else(like you said), but don't criticize others for what they have said.
YOU, NOR I, DO NOT KNOW what is going on in a person's head, when they are replying. ALL YOU KNOW is what is going on inside that pretty little head of yours! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

We are only responsible for what we (personally) post here...We cannot do a dayum thing about what someone else says/believes, etc.

Trust me! I am going to save my HEARTATTACK/STROKE for something more worthwhile, not a few words typed via computer! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif (I got that line from my GAY co-worker...lol)

***I think this is hitting a little too close to home for some! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif***

Just my opinion.


[This message has been edited by AKA2D '91 (edited March 31, 2001).]

I know I said that my last post was my last, but I felt compelled to respond to this one. Regarding our motto, as I stated in my last post, our motto has always been "Reaching the world through service to our kind," but we've always used the shorter "service to our kind." So, we haven't really changed anything. As far as the symbols, when AKA or any organization gains the ability to copyright the use of the ivy, or the pearl, or a dove, etc., then we can talk.

As I stated, also in my last post, this is not about sexual orientation for me. If anyone on this forum or anywhere else in life has a problem with my sexual orientation, then that's their problem. I don't have a problem with it. You can debate it, call me names, tell me how I'm going to hell, etc, till the cows come home, it won't change the facts of my orientation. Secondly, Delta Phi Upsilon does not use Alpha Kappa Alpha's symbols.We use universal symbols that happen to also be used by Alpha Kappa Alpha. I understand that as humans we can all read the same thing, yet each get a different message from it (kinda like the Bible - but that's a whole different topic, which I am NOT trying to start), but I urge you all to read very carefully the words of my postings. To all the women of AKA and other orgs, who have sent private emails of support, thank you.

Ok, hopefully, this will be my last post. LOL.

Trevor Charles.

[This message has been edited by DeltaBro1 (edited March 31, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by DeltaBro1 (edited March 31, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by DeltaBro1 (edited March 31, 2001).]

I can surely save my heart attack for something else like when I recieve my student loan repayment book http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif!!!!!! Its just that I grew up in a very liberal/homosexual tolerable part of America (Bay Area) so I may be over sensitive to the issue. At any rate I was assuming the negativity surronding this thread was based on sexual oreintation, and perhaps its not, who knows but the posters themselves http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif?

I'm just excited I have smiles http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif in my post, ahhhhh the power of SEARCH, lol!!!!!

First, if one is going to form "THEIR OWN" organizations and serve "THEIR OWN NEEDS and PURPOSES" well then get "YOUR OWN SYMBOLS". It's that simple. In order to specialize something it must be done 100%. Anything less is not original.

Second, if it was that easy to change a motto that one has had since inception, then why can't the symbols be changed either?

Lastly, why is that someone cannot disagree with an issue-the use of another orgs symbols-without being cosidered conservative and against gays? How liberal is that?

I must say that for me it was never about homosexuality. I have a HUGE problem with sweetheart groups. I assumed that this was the case about the Delta fraternity. I assumed that the fraternity was made up of a group of grown men who wanted to pledge AKA. I mean that sickened me. There was a question in the Kappa forum about women who were interested in joining Kappa. That sickened me also. So after the brother came in here and explained his fraternity's position, I sorta sympathized with his plight. Then it occured to me that they shared the same founding date, and the use of both the Ivy and the Pearl. You know the saying if it walks like a duck...I agree that it may have been necessary for this brother and others to feel that they needed to start their organization. However, why did they feel the need to carry many of the traditions well known to be used by Alpha Kappa Alpha. I can assume that they have their own meaning behind the symbolism of these objects. But that's not good enough for me. And, January 15, is just a date. But why that date? Also their motto. "Service to our Kind". I'm so sick of non Divine Niners saying that we members are not living our purpose or we've deviated from our founders' dreams. That's the reason why subsequent organizations were founded after 1906 and 1908. But unlike like todays generation of organizations, they really searched their hearts and minds for an answer. They used "creativity" in forming symbols that meant something to them and the type of organization they wanted to form. And many talk about the hazing that has plagued the Divine Nine but yet they have lines, line names, and numbers. Unlike AKA2D said, I don't think that they should have relied on the trite rainbow symbol. But I do feel that they could have found something that better represented their plight as being both gay and African American men in an oppressed society. To all future founders of greek organizations. If for some reason there is not an organization that meets your particular needs, by all means go and found your own thing. That's what my founders did. But please keep this in mind, originality is the key. If the Divine Nine has strayed from its mission as you say, then don't mimic us. After all, the purpose of your founding would be to provide something lacking in current GLO's already in existence. It's just the coincidences are way too eerie to me. I can totally understand what some AKA's feel. If some other organization would come along and incorporate some of the symbols that made Kappa the great institution it is, I'd be a little leary of them too. But in saying all of this, Brother good luck to you and your organization.

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KAPPA ALPHA PSI FRATERNITY, INC.
SPR 97
XI LAMBDA

[This message has been edited by NUPE4LIFE (edited March 31, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by NUPE4LIFE (edited March 31, 2001).]

I have gone over this thread many times. I have looked at every opinion and I have contemplated whether or not to post because I only have a certain frame of reference. But I have found some of these comments very unsettling. The above quote was a bit disturbing to read because I felt a sense of elitism flowing through it. Based on what Trevor Charles said, he has used Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority as a frame of reference but so did the sororities that came after Alpha Kappa Alpha and I am quite sure that this organization used the GLO's and other orgs. in the like as a frame of reference. I could imagine the comments that were made on white campuses when BGLO's began popping up. My question here is out of respect to what? I believe that the fact that Mr. Charles created his fraternity to serve the gay community in a positive way is respect enough.

Sisterfriend AKA_Monet, your post touched me the most because I really got the sense as to why you and many of your sisters who share your viewpoint feel the way you do, however, I feel that you maybe upset more at the fact that this is a homosexual organization. What gave me that feeling was when you said:

I understand that everybody gotta do they own thang. Whateva's cleva. In fact my cousin is a lesbian and was out when people in her small southern Black community thought we don't have those "caucasian" sexual orientation issues. I mean no offense, but in the Black community, some people do think that sexual orientation is not OUR issue.

To me this is just like a white person saying "I'm not prejudice/racist, I have Black friends." Right there you are just showing your true colors. You also felt the need to justify your heterosexuality and IMHO this justification only occurs when you are uncomfortable with someone else's sexual preference

SF Monet you also mentioned that part of the issue is also the fact that there will be people misconstruing this organization for others and will perhaps continue fighting within our community over same symbol usage. My question is how and why would there be any strife? I believe if you and others of like mind weren't so incensed, there would be no infighting. I firmly believe that because you are the First Black Sorority that the emulation would be welcomed. Perhaps would you have preferred them to use Alpha Phi Alpha as a frame of reference?

Lastly, why would you ask Mr. Charles what the symbols, colors etc. mean for his organization. I believe sf that you do not have the right to do that. He and his brothers know and that is enough. I am not stupid there are people probably out there desiring to be like you and your sisters but there are genuine people like I believe Mr. Charles is who mean no harm. I think naysayers out here need to really look outside the box and try to uplift each other. The powers that be are looking at us and love the divisiveness. So please, can we try and be more accepting?

I hope you guys understand my P.O.V. I was up very late typing this. Take Care.....

Mr. Trevor is now trying to start trouble in the Delta Sigma Theta forum.

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KAPPA ALPHA PSI FRATERNITY, INC.
SPR 97
XI LAMBDA

What was so disturbing about my post? And what sense of elitism did you see flowing through it? All I was trying to say was or rather rationalize was why the need to use a majority of an organization's symbols for the last time I was stressing BE ORIGINAL. True other sororities that followed may have used AKA as a frame of reference but did they use a COMBINATION of AKA's colors, symbols, founding dates? No! Each organization has it's own separate identity. If your intent was to create an organization specific to "your kind" and set itself from aside from all others, why not be more original and create your own identity not emulate someone elses. Well, i'm done for now got better things to talk about! Bye everyone.

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Cancel My Subcription Because I'm So Sick And Tired Of Your Issues!

Wisemen Speak Because They Have Something To Say, Fools Because They Have To Say Something!

[This message has been edited by Inquisitive (edited April 01, 2001).]

If by "trouble" you mean something negative, then I resent that. If you don't, then sorry!!

Wow, such harsh words. I guess one can't even mention another frat's name.

[This message has been edited by AKA2D '91 (edited April 01, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by AKA2D '91 (edited April 01, 2001).]

MIND YO BITNESS!

Consider it done. LOL. I keep saying "this is my last post" but I keep coming back. This is so addictive.

When I stated my opinion, not once did I use profanity nor did I disrespect you. If your only recourse in responding to me was to curse than you should have kept your comments to yourself.

Inquisitive, I understand where you are coming from a little more clearer. Thank you.

[This message has been edited by AKA2D '91 (edited April 01, 2001).]

I meant you no personal disrepect, and I apologize if I came across that way. I get tired of this subject, and my fraternity being mentioned in the same sentence with it. It is an issue my chapter never had to worry about; nor most of those in my region. Manhood is one of our principles; therefore my fraternity has nothing to do with this issue. Again, please accept my apology.

Original Ape,

your apology is accepted and Thank you.