>>>Again if you read my original post a few back, it said in my experience in the Midwest and East coast<<<

Then it sounds like to me you don't really have the vast experience that one would need to make the blanket statements you have made.

I can see where you are going with your statement, but you have made some extreme over-generalizations and you definitly picked the wrong groups to back up your argument with.

Delta Upsilon's premier chapter, from what I've been told, is at the University of Missouri, and they are quite strong there (feel free to chime in and correct me if I am wrong on anything).

Also, their IU chapter has greatly improved and they are a pretty strong house now.

And Sigma Nu....they are definitly one of Indiana University's top houses.

I actually have been to a lot of campuses on the east coast, and in the midwest and in the south, and while there are some houses that tend to dominate, its definilty not 99% of the time and you can probably find another chapter within that same state that is in a bottom tier.

Chi Omega, probably one of the strongest GLOs out there has a 2/3 "top house" population rating amongst all of their chapter's campuses (an IU Chi-O told me this information...Chi Omega is definitly one of the top sororities at IU). Considering the amount of chapters that they have, 66% is an AMAZING PERCENTAGE to have (remember, this is TOP HOUSE, it doesnt even include the "good house" chapters), but a far cry from 99%, or even 75%.

I really enjoy this thread and hearing people's perspectives, however, I beg of people to stop slinging groups nationally. While I will agree that there is a trend of certain GLO's to be stronger at most of their schools, I think that there are very few people here who have the actual experience and who have actually done the massive amount of in depth research to be able to back up who's who.

Besides, whether your house is top or bottom tier on a campus or not, they still belong to a greater national organization, and in the end after graduation, that network is what will really count.

Getting into trouble hardly means falling from the top tier. Heck at my university there is basically the big four Sig Chi, SAE, SigEp, and Kap Sig. SAE is banned by the IFC, SigEp and Kap Sig are both on university probation yet they are three of the strongest four at the school, normally the good frats are the ones that get in trouble.

yeah, but its the STRONGEST fraternities that are smart enough to have the best time and stay out of trouble.

IU's strongest fraternity (I wont mention their name, but everyone knows who they are) parties...but I've never heard of them getting busted....of course...that could be an entirely different thread ;)

The best parties are the ones that get out of control ;)

I would like to point out that you need a charter to exist. If you get in trouble too much, you get your charter pulled, thus you don't exist. That is a b*llsh*t statment and it perpetuates the idea that many fraternities have about getting in trouble. There are rules and regs for reasons. I don't care who you are but if you get underage drinking cites and hazing violations etc.. every year or two, how is that strong?

** I'm sorry to be rude, but the attitude that some fraternities have is horrible and the idea that rules are there to be broken and make you stronger is absurd. It reflects poorly on the greek costs for houses.

Hate to break it to ya bud but without out of control parties all the good frats would be dead and the weak ones would be all there was sitting around playing bloody board games and drinking soda. Wow what fun, wait no.

what's up with your obsession with kappa sig, sae, sigep, and sigma chi?

To keep this discussion in tangent with the original topic..

The houses that tend to be in the higher tiers tend to be their for several factors.

Many times its tradition, quality in recruitment, [sometimes] size, and even the $$$ that the alumni pour into the chapters for resources.

I wouldnt say that its parties that make "frats good" becuase there are strong fraternities at my campus that dont really throw a lot of parties (they dont need to...girls hang out their anyway) and there are some lower tier houses that throw awesome parties.

My school has lost 6 (and now possibly 8) fraternities in the last 4 years due in part to alchohol and partying. That negative publicity affected the entire greek system and those who did party responsibly had to scale back their social events to the point where the university asked them to serve punch and animal crackers! (not literally of course)

I dont have a problem with guys who "sit down and play bloody boardgames" since they're keeping my insurance costs down.

What are some of the positive and negative qualities that people notice in the top tier houses on their campuses? I think it would be interesting to compile this information to see if many houses are "up there" becuase they have recruited the ideal member...or becuase they just have the rep... :confused:

I just have to point out that one of these "big four" fraternities that you keep yapping about Godfather was on my campus until last year. And they were a big house, NUMBERS WISE. Any other respect though they were awful. They hazed so badly and made it no secret, they were disrespectful to women, they'd participate in everything but no sorority ever wanted to be paired with them b/c they were such jerkoffs. For homecoming pairings one year, Theta picked Ag Sig over this other "big house" b/c they were a) nicer guys and b) BETTER than this other org. at homecoming despite that they were less than half the size.

Now these rude, disrespectful, party animals that thought they owned this campus have been kicked off and are pretty much just a joke anymore.

So I hate to break it to you, but these bigger houses that throw wild parties might seem stronger at first glance, but take a good look and I'm pretty sure you'd change your mind.

/hijack

Obsession? No, just a statement of fact that they are the strong chapters at my university and kap sig, sae, and sigma chi are strong at most schools hence why I brought them up.

Lastly anyone who doesn't believe in the tier system needs only take a look at most schools IE KKG and DG will only mix with the afore mentioned big four, and we for instance will only mix with KKG, DG, and Sig Kappa

and at my school the Kappas and DGs would most likely never mix with SAEs or SigEps. Believe what you want, it's different at every school.

ETA: No offense to any SAEs, SigEps, Kappas, or DG's...I love you all :p

Just a note for those who read the thread and wondered what the difference between alumni and alumnae is:

Alumni refers to a mixed group of men and women or a group of men, a single post-collegiate member would be an alumnus

Alumnae refers to a group of women exclusively and a single post-collegiate member would be an alumna


Barbara, am I correct in my explanation?

Once again, it just goes to show that chapters are different everywhere, on my campus, the SAE's have recently lost their house, and the Sig Eps are colonizing after being gone for a couple of years...

And as stated in a previous post, some of the smaller houses do throw the "biggest" parties. In fact, we are one of the smaller houses at Montana State, but out of the three "legendary" parties on our campus, two of them are and have been put on by my chapter. So, in other words, numbers and parties don't totally always define the "best" chapter.

I agree with most of the rest of your post but I am calling bullisht on this one. Either she made this statistic up or it was taken from an extremely limited sample size of a survey of her own design. I kinda doubt there's any national sorority out there who's taking surveys on whether or not their chapters are viewed as "top houses," especially since most national officers realize the irrelevance of this statistic. What could pass for "top chapter" on some campuses wouldn't even pass some sororities' minimum member requirements. Other times a house could be considered "bottom tier" and still have girls who with extraordinarily high GPAs and good looks who are very involved on campus and do lots of philanthropy, but compared to other groups on campus they are just not "as good."



I thought we were all mature enough to handle this discussion, but apparently we aren't. And really, the turn this debate has taken makes us look like idiots. Clearly Kappa and DG and Tri Delt don't comprise the top tier at every university out there. Some? Sure. Lots? Maybe. All? Nowhere close. The same goes for Sig Ep/SAE/Kappa Sig/Sigma Chi on the fraternity side. For anybody who thinks that they do, it just makes you look extremely ignorant of Greek systems outside your own. What goes for your campus or your state or even your entire geographic region varies drastically.