Are y'all talking about Judge Alex? http://www.judgealex.com/

Re: Interracial Dating...For the Holidays?????
 

I'm going allll the way back to the original post, but after I read the rests of the posts and CRACKED up, I almost felt like I didn't need to repond. But, I still wanted to speak directly to the thread starter.

To be honest, I understand exactly where you are coming from. People are quick to jump and say that you or those who feel the way you do (including myself) create a double standard when we say that there is a difference between the implications of a black man dating a white woman and a black woman dating a white man. I really feel that there is a difference. The main reason I feel this way is simply because of history. There is sort of a social stigma attached to being black in America. Not sort of, there IS. Black women are more often than not overlooked and put down by all the other cultures in this country. This is substantially corroborated even through the U.S. Census and other academically respectable studies which have shown that high rates of interracial marriages and coupling exist between, of course, black men-white women, white men-asian women, white men-latina women, black men-latina women. Out of all the groupings in our society, white man'white woman remains the highest rate of occurence, obviously because each see the other as the most desireable sex out of all other possible groups in our society, which is also based on social status, power, and what the mainstream dictates is the epitome of aesthetic superiority. The two groups that do not have a "record" or dating outside their respective races are black women and asian men. One study I read pointed out (strangly to me) that the logical thing would be for black women and asian men to get together. That doesn't seem to ackowledge the social factors behind why the coupling trends happen, though. Its not that the groups are just playing match up and the last two groups who are left out should just shrug shoulders and match up, its that these two groups somehow fall out the mainstream view of what is "desireable". Now, please don't think I am saying that black women are NOT desireble in reality, I am instead trying to express what society says because other studies have shown, specifically one conducted by Essence Magazine, that black women surprisingly have not allowed the social mischaracterizations to negatively impact their self esteem. (although I would argue that whether or not many black women realize it or even want to admit it, it does). So, its really what society says that I am focusing on. So, in such a society, I think it makes sense that black men would fall victim to that social trend. They seem to seek out what society says is the desireable just like everyone else and except for the ones who steadfastly refuse to abandon us, they pretty much see themselves as "escaping" something when they go and get themselves a white woman. I think this is another one of those areas that we don't want to talk about because to admit these things would mean either accepting some of these generalizations as truth or acknowledging that someones particular group is less favorable than another. Again, I am not promoting any of these ideas, I am just speaking on what seems to be the social background and trends relating to this discussion because I, too, have wondered about why I feel the way I do about these things and have read a lot about it. No, as has been pointed out by a few posters, there are exceptions and among black women who date outside the race, I have known many who are clueless and are seeking to fill some void rather than truly loving the individual they happened to have met for who they are. I just find that more inner conflicts exist amond black men who date white women because it is true, and often they come to realize that they are dealing with deep internal problems having to do with being a black MAN in America. That affects black men on so many levels and I think this is just one way they consciously or subconsciously express that. I remember watching Hannit & Combs on Fox News and they brought a black female radio hostess from New York, I believe, on their show to talk about comments she had made about black men dating white women and she was trying to explain why a lot of black women felt the sting and most often don't like it. They, as they always do, would not let her get a word in edgewise and kept berrating her, calling her a racist and saying that she was wrong and basically no different from the white men who used to castrate and murder black men when they even THOUGHT they were looking at a white woman. I thought that was terrible of them not to even listen. But I realized that it is hard to explain how we feel about this. Black woman who feel rejected by even black men in light of the history of this country always depicting us as less than desireable and less attractive due to our natural features and all that are NOT the same as some power hungry white man OR woman who feels that dating or marrying a black person somehow ruins their race because they feel we are less than human or inferior which is the root of the laws and history against "race-mixing". As with everything else in this country related to race, history and reality do not function the same way on both sides so our feelings and motivations on this issue are definitely different than those of others.

Sorry for the long post.

LMAO

I ADORE Jake Gyllenhaal. He is so fine. And Samantha's boo is Jason Lewis. He is perfection. He's dating Rosario Dawso., and they are just so cute together!

how she look, LOL

^^
Jake G. looks horsey to me. But I do like "Smith Jerrod."

i know you like us

:cool:

Re: Re: Interracial Dating...For the Holidays?????
 

Phasad1913, this is very insightful though very unfortunate at the same time.

I wanted to make a statement, not directly regarding this, but along the lines of why change is not occurring. I'd love to get your opinion! I believe that we will agree that power (including power to define beauty, power to succeed, power to live in privilege, etc.) currently rests among whites.

Having said that, this analogy has been developing in my mind and I've mentioned it before, though not on this site...For whites to be faced with white privilege/their power is like a person being faced with a diagnosis of terminal cancer. Some form of denial may occur that can last for any amount of time. It's too much to wrap one's mind around.

Then, those who finally acknowledge it are at a complete loss and are horrified at the pervasiveness and severity of the situation. Some may feel so helpless, they give up. Or they may decide they simply don't care and will just allow the disease to swallow them up.

However, there will always be those who exist who do have a strong grasp, as they are blindsided by reality. These are the people who will be intentional in their actions against disease by educating themselves and "fighting back" (which, in the case of white privilege/their power, doesn't have to mean violence or being outspoken - it could be as simple as a lifestyle overhaul toward a better life.)

These people see the situation, identify with the situation and desire to change the situation.

I am compelled to say where is God in this? But, I'll leave it at that.

Re: Re: Re: Interracial Dating...For the Holidays?????
 

As to the first part of your post, its hard for me to respond because your statements seem to be from the perspective of a white person coming to terms with the concept of white privilege or failing to. I cannot speak to that because I don't share that perspective, naturally because I am not white. However, I do agree with you that in a society where most, if not everything, stems from the perspectives of white people, at least in terms of how the world functions and what groups of people represent what, who is normal who is not, what cultural expressions are legitimate, which ones are not and so forth, its hard for a person living comfortably within that framework of thought to recognize it and feel a need to do something about it. Think about it, if you are the beneficiary of a paritcularized realm of thinking based on YOUR race's or ethnic group's persepctive, why would you really go out of your way to change anything. Its far easier and more tempting to just let things be and live your life in ignorant bliss. So, to these types of people there isn't much anyone can do. How that relates to this topic in terms of rectifying the disparities in various groups' abilities to mix and mingle romantically, I have no idea. It's just one of those things that will have to evolve as time goes on...if it evolves at all. I suppose when we move on from our current "group mentality" ways of thinking to a more individualized society where people feel perfectly comfortable meeting and discovering things about other individuals instead of always attaching social acceptance standards to who they would like to date or marry or live next to or go to school with, etc. etc.etc., then perhaps these trends will change.

Your second point about where God is in this, I really can't answer that one. I do believe that God is in each individual and we are all made in his image. The earthly problems and human/social constructs that we allow to restrict our freedom to enjoy the presence of all the different types of people God placed on the earth are just that, our problems. I don't think God will involve himself in this sort of thing when people are perfectly capable to (and do everyday) make their own decisions about how they want to treat people and who they want to surround themselves with.

Those guys are sooo sexy a long with Jet Li. John Lone is growing old gracefully, but when he was younger he was very sexy. I remember him from the last emperor. Also, the guy who plays dr. mcdreamy on grey's anatomy.

dang, folks are writing some dissertations.

I don't see the hype, white guys on a whole do nothing for me- just not into them

Re: Re: Interracial Dating...For the Holidays?????
 

Neither Hannity (definitely not Hannity) nor Combs ought to have ever addressed this issue. What for? How does that affect them--really? Shame on the woman for thinking she was even going to get a fair shake on this deal... the question is, Why were they even giving this show credence? And all I can come up with is the entire FOX News Channel does not want this addressed because there is some "fantasic" about miscegnation that makes it sooooo enticing. And the moneymakers can quickly find dollars when there are relational issues in regard to that... Think of how much money is made when OJ blinks?

The way to deal with that kind of show is how, the Arthel [sp?] Neville chick dealt with Bill O'Reilly--notice that she's not allowed to be on there anymore... That is how you deal with biases and bigots--put it right out there for them to deal with it... Then the denial walls come up...

In fact that is how I have talked to plenty of caucasian men--very powerful men in my former city in that direct line of questioning... That is if you wish to play the game and it is very dangerous. Basically, you say, "How do you find me physically attractive, and if not, why?" The follow up, that most African American men have those kinds of issues of not even loving themselves enough to already, that they "escape" by thinking they can actually find validity outside of themselves through a women outside of his cultural vantage point... But you have to put it squarely on them because they have to address this issue of Black Women and Self-Esteem and Beauty... Most caucasian men are not willing to admit that to themselves--let's not begin to start with other ethnic groups.

The question you raise is an ancient one: Where did all this "bigotry" of "race mixing" begin and when did it become a sexually erotic and enticing thing? Think of the Greco-Roman times when they conquered Egypt and beyond, and I think you might find your answers...

There are strong historical reasons why it suddenly became "wrong" to love someone not of your background, your clan, your race, your heritage, unequally yoked, etc... A very strong epistemology follows that...

The closest understanding of this whole thing I have found is from Dr. Frances Cress Welsing's, The Isis Papers. Paula Giddings book, When and Where I Enter, somewhat addresses this issue, in that the shock that happened after all the help that Black women gave during civil rights to their "man" and the perceived abandonment of affection for someone else... There are plenty of reasons for that and I cannot go into at this time.

And really. a loooonnnngggg time ago, like B.C., it wasn't a problem until a defined point in time... The question is, why?


I personally have found it easier to explain to some of the purveyeors of what I would call the most racist men in America--Caucasian Staunch Republican wealthy men--and I have this knowledge by just talking to them if I can suppress my anger long enough... And what I find is that they are psychologically hurt by what is expected of being a "man"--especially "Da Man", etc.--that they have no clue as to how to deal with it. Most of those guys don't want to be viewed as haters. I mean only those of the 3rd Reich would want to feel that way, but I seriously doubt they want to be seen how most in "society" think of them--so essentially, they shutdown those emotions and go into something they've probably been doing since they realized they were boys... And that is where the problem I think arises...

What we are fighting here is years of history...

Some folks want to live in denial. Others want to move on. Still others want to hash it out. But others don't even know that something happened until you tell them or shock them...

Re: Re: Re: Interracial Dating...For the Holidays?????
 

See preciousjeni,

You have hit another crux of the problem... You know more than I do, who these "scribes" were when they "translated" the Bible from one language to another... And you know how "leaders" took that information out of context and used it to their advangtage...

And everyone knows that folks can use the Bible to justify about anything... As well as many other religious and spiritual texts.

So from my viewpoint, God is not in this at all. We humans want to put Him there. If anything, if God was at the driver's seat in our lives--if we call ourselves Christians--then God makes it work... Who cares what others say?

But once we say, "okay, let's step out of our 'cultural identity' and see beyond", we are in someways, going beyond that which God or our Creator has made us to be... And if we actively pursue and choose that life, God actually is no longer involved... And that is where it makes it tough...

We can get into marriages and it's meanings from this point. Because like I said to Phasad1913, it is history that we are fighting... Including Biblical texts written... Dare I say Qu'ranic influences, too...

Why is it like this? Historical...

But you know I have come to the conclusion, folks are gonna do what they ultimately want to do anyway, and if God want to stop it, He will, but why?

Re: Re: Re: Interracial Dating...For the Holidays?????
 

Precisely.