I agree completely with texas*princess. We all do things differently. And in some cases chapters of the same group do things differently. I have heard some groups give new members even the right to vote on chapter matters. Strange to me, but if it works for them. Great!
I also was allowed to wear letters from the start. And I LOVE my letters and appreciate them as much as I would had I waited. I was super excited to get the crest for my car after initiation. But that is nothing compared to what my letters mean to me.

But you didn't wait, so how can you say you know? You can't. If it meant that much to you being handed them, imagine how much they would mean to you now if you actually earned them first.

edited cuz I SUCK at spelling :(

not to start a kindergarten fight, but...
 

How do you know you would have appreciated your letters any less if they were just "handed" to you? You *can't* know, because your organization makes you "earn" them.

"I know you are but what am I!"

haha, j/k

You got me there, texas, I'm just basing this on my experience from other things. I tend to appreciate and take more seriously things that I have earned as opposed to those that were given to me. I didn't see this as being much different.

But tooche (sp?), you got me. ;)

hehehe.. that made me giggle!

I understand you saying you are basing it on your experience with other things. For example, a lot of people say they appreciate their car more if they worked to get money to pay for it as opposed to just being given one by their parents... but that is not always the case. Some people may appreciate their car very much regardless if it was given to them or if they worked to pay for it.

It's just like I mentioned earlier, there is no right or wrong here. Many organizations do things differently, and that's what makes them all unique :)

I wasn't inferring that they meant as much to me the day I first wore them. I am saying the I love them as much today, than if they had been given to me after initiation. When I learned their meaning, they obviously meant so much more to me.
But, it doesn't matter when I started wearing them. The letters wouldn't have meant more to me today, eight years later, just because I wasn't allowed to have them for three months.

Wow. You Texans are really gangin' up on me here. ;)

I guess this Jersey boy should give up while he's not too far behind...

:cool:

I edited this post after being told that my chapter was a "mockery of the Greek system."

No, I am not against pledging - my chapter has new member activities and education, etc, blah blah blah. I'm against HAZING, which is often what is discussed when "earning" letters. I'm not talking about wearing a pledge pin - that's not hazing. I'm talking about taking wood, sleep deprivation, mass alcohol consumption, etc.

this is getting ridiculous
 

Oh, so now we're against pledging at all? What exactly is being meant by pleding to you? Don't get me wrong, I'm against hazing, but you shouldn't just sit around and talk and call that earning your letters. What's so wrong with doing things like team-building activities or other new member functions? I'm not talkinga bout paddling, I'm not talking about being force-fed dog food, but sometimes people fly off the handle and scream HAZING! over the slightest little thing. What's so wrong with team-building activities like scavenger hunts, provided its handled in a mature way, or other functions similar to these? Please. Get over it. Go join Circle K or something like that if you don't feel like earning the privledge of being Greek.

I'm sorry to sound like an ass but very few things piss me off more than people who don't want to have to "pledge" to become Greek. We're not f'ing CLUBS damnit, it's so much more than that. "If you want to get to a dream, you must first pass through the nightmare." Not that I'm saying pledging should be a nightmare, but it should be a challenge, something you can feel proud of that you did, something your class can have pride in that they accomplished together. You can do that without hazing. We're not just clubs, so stop treating it like we are! These is why we're in trouble nationwide, because people just want their letters and to be greek but dont' want to have to do anything for them aside from pay dues. Like I said, if that's what you want, go join something else.

GRRR.

Sorry, this isn't meant to be directed against anyone, but I hate how people are so overly sensative about hazing, insisting that every little thing is wrong wrong wrong. It's wrong to wear pledge pins, it's wrong to be asked to do a class service project, it's wrong to have new members interview actives. ARG!!!! Think about it people, it's just plain silly.

Delta Phi Epsilon also has a rule that not allowing new members to wear letters is hazing. I used to think it was not right, but now I look at it and am proud of the fact that our new members are so excited and want to wear their letters with pride. Also, they wear a NM pin with letters, so a sweatshirt is fine too. Besides, they will learn the important stuff at initiation, and THAT'S what's important...

Okay, I've been thinking about this thread a lot, and since I got to wear my letters during my pledge program, I was thinking about things that I could and couldn't do as a pledge. There are three things that relate pretty closely to being able to wear letters.

We couldn't say either "Wooglin" or "Kai", and we couldn't enter our chapter room, until we were initiated.

After getting initiated did I feel like being able to do those things were great acheivements? Not really they were all kinda anti-climactic, and paled in comparison to learning what the three great principles of Beta Theta Pi are. I would imagine that finally being able to wear letters would be a similar experience, a nice benefit of finally initiating but not meaning as much as the knowledge gained through initiation. In even further comparison, I think that wearing letters wouldn't even come close to finally being able to wear the badge - which is the official symbol of membership for most GLO's.

Betarulz!, great post. There were also things I couldn't do/say as a new member - and for me, getting to wear the Crescent, sign my letters to sisters "In PKE", being able to attend ritual functions, etc, meant so much more to me than wearing letters ever could.

letters
 

i think its simply about what wearing letters denotes. the wearing of letters, to me, would indicate you're a member of that organization. If you see someone walking down the street wearing letters any reasonable person would also think that. And despite the current npc ways of referring to pledges as new members they are not truly members. The whole purpose of pledging is an attempt to earn membership (and earning doesn't equal hazing). If pledging wasn't about earning membership, pledging would serve no purpose and therefore not exist -- members could be iniated right after they received bids. Simply stated - if you're not a member you shouldn't be acting as if you are by wearing letters.

I thought the new member period wasn't just about "earning membership" but about learning more about your fraternity or sorority.

:confused:

I guess like I mentioned earlier, it's all a matter of perspective. I personally LOVE that my sorority gives our new members all rights of an active member (excluding ritual, but that comes later). I love that there is no division between the new members and the initiated sisters, and I don't feel like I was "acting" as if I were a sister when I was a new member by wearing my letters. When people asked me about it, I told them I was a new member. I wasn't trying to act as if I were already initated :confused: