Maybe I'm just way too idealistic, but when are we going to realize that we're not white, black, yellow, orange or freaking purple... we are people?

That's a stretch. I grew up in a city with a majority black population (something like 70%). I went to integrated (50/50) public schools. I went to a university with a large black population, and for a time, I even attended an HBCU - yet I'm STILL an Alpha Phi.

I think what would be helpful is if "we" stopped treating "our" culture as a monolithic entity where (most) everyone thinks the same and acts the same. The only thing I have in common with Al Sharpton is my skin tone - the similarity ends there.

I think segregation within the greek system -- and modern segregation as a WHOLE is partly self-segregation on the part of "our" folks. Another reason is what Nhfulmer alluded to in her post - if a black woman or black man decides to go out for Panhellenic or NIC rush and they don't get a bid, then there's the possibility that they'll be treated like a pariah by the NPHC chapters at their school.

I agree with you 100%. :D It's okay to notice the difference on the outside, but I always thought that recruitment was about finding the similarities between people, to determine whether they're a good fit for your house.

astroAPhi - I'm a person, but I'm also a black person. It's an important part of my identity, but it's not my only identity. It feels a bit dismissive to me when people make comments like yours, because it's almost like asking me to cut off part of myself and throw it away just so we can all get along. But that's just one Phi's opinion. :)

edited to take the stick out of my b*tt

I didn't go to a competitive southern school, but from other rush threads I get the perception that if you're a transfer at a competitive school, they might ask you to rush again, or put you on 'probation', or not even ask you to affiliate. I think the "right of association" applies even on the local level. I'm not saying I agree with it though - cause if you're a SK, you should be a SK where ever you go.

Would other black women go through rush if they saw another black woman there? That's hard to know, and it depends on the individual. I know that when I was looking into Alum initiation, I checked out the magazines of the groups I was interested in and -- I hesitate to admit this -- I looked for folks who looked like me. When I saw "us" represented, it gave me a more favorable opinion of the group. It wasn't the deciding factor, but I definitely noticed.

I've thought about this a lot, especially as a Native Southerner who has moved to the Northeast for school. I can say that my decision to go through NPC Recruitment (as opposed to staying independent or going another route) was influenced by the diversity of the chapters at my school, as well as the women rushing with me. As bad as it sounds, by the time college rolled around, I was sick and tired of being the only person of color in my school, classes, and organizations--being a groundbreaker or a token gets annoying fast. It wasn't assured, of course, that my potential sisters of color would welcome me with open arms, but I knew that my potential sisters had a history of tolerance--which was very important to me. I see it in potential new members, who will ask me those questions that they can't ask the other sisters about what it's really like to be a woman of color in an NPC group--and this is at a very liberal, tolerant school! So I can only imagine what it's like at less progressive institutions...

But, I suspect that if one hearty woman tries and succeeds in breaking the NPC color barrier at Auburn, UA, Ole Miss, UGA, and LSU, others will follow.

Sadly, I also believe that at least at the least progressive schools, it could impact not relations between other sororities, but between the sorority and other fraternities. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't the argument used by the discriminatory sorority members that, if they accepted a black member, that they would never be invited to do a mixer with certain fraternities? If there is a bond between a sorority and a fraternity (history of mixers, lots of dating or even marriage between members of those chapters), you can bet that it could be a concern.

Like other people have said before, I don't think outreach is the question. I don't think it would mean a hill of beans if my organization got all of our members of color to pose for an ad for the NPC in Jet or Ebony, encouraging college students to consider us. Forced integration would be worse. I think some systems will never be integrated--not because of the ignorance of some of its white members or the negative attitudes of some blacks on campus--but just because of the campus environment. I consider myself a bleeding heart liberal idealist, but about topics like this, I am sadly very realistic.

I don't think that you undeerstood my question. What I was trying to say is what IF I was initiated into SK in another chapter but I decied to transfer ( I am not saying that I am going to do this) to a southern school and become active with that chapter, what did you think will happen to the rush process? Do you think that this situation would help intergrate the school's fraternities and sororites? I would hope that my sorority would not ask me not to affiliate with them. I'll be the first one to turn them into our NHQ.

I am trying to play devil's advocate. We live in 2003 and anything is possible. And this could happen here in the near future. I know that it kills me to think about this, but it's probably going to happen before we know it. That's why I do raise the question, so when the time comes we won't be so shocked. That's why we need to talk about it now.

Just from what I have seen being in the south, sometimes I think the lack of diversity in NPC and NPHC is not so much the chapters, but the racial atmosphere of the surrounding area. At my university, there was a lot of racism from the professors and they made no effort to hide it. The minority population complained to the administration about the fact that there were only 3 minority profs. at the university. The racism was so bad that police on campus would stop random black male students and ask them for ID's as if they did not belong on the campus. Several of the professors assumed that the students of color were poor, ignorant, and uneducated because many people in that area were even though many of the students were not even from the area. My point is, with all this going on, why would you want to pledge a historically white org in the midst of racism. The sisters in XYZ could have been very tolerant and raised in a multicultural society, but the best attitude will not change the mindset of the people that would have been an asset to your org.

Sistermadly, I'm very sorry if I offended you. I definitely think that we should all have pride in our culture. I just see too much segregation on the parts of ALL people. I'm one of those people who thinks that we're all made of the the same inside, and to exclude someone based on the outside is wrong. We're all different, and that's what makes everyone beautiful. (God do I feel like a hippie saying this.) If we all looked the same, how would we find something beautiful? It would all be boring!

I hope you realize that I meant in terms of looks, not in terms of culture. Maybe I should have explained that a little better. :(

I think you're very right. At my school, there is no such thing as a "multicultural" GLO... or rather, they all are. We have 2 NPC sororities, one local sorority, and 6 NIC fraternities. There are no NPHC organizations or anything like Theta Nu Xi or Delta Gamma Pi. I attend a very big international university, so people from all walks of life and backgrounds join fraternities and sororities. I've had sisters from Pakistan and Honduras. That may be why sometimes I don't understand why some schools (and not all in the South!) have problems like the ones that are being described and theorized in this thread.

Sometimes GC teaches you about the things that you think are horrible, but I'd rather be aware that it exists than naive and suddenly have a problem like this sprung on me one day.

I understood it, and thought I referred to it in the last half of my post when I said it would depend on the individual. :)

. My point is, with all this going on, why would you want to pledge a historically white org in the midst of racism. The sisters in XYZ could have been very tolerant and raised in a multicultural society, but the best attitude will not change the mindset of the people that would have been an asset to your org.

This really is a thought provoking question.

When I read about different aspect of NPHC, and hear the thoughts held about recruitment and sisterhood, I feel like it is an amazing organization and the Sororities are so special. I'm sure they have their inner problems just like NPC, but all in all I just admire the women here, on GC, that represent their orgs. Which makes the above question lead me to this-

For all of you who came to the point where a decision had to be made between NPC or NPHC, what influenced you to rush NPC?
Is this considered a hijack?

((Big PhiBear Hugs))

You didn't offend me. :)

I'm not sure if it is a hijack or not but it is a really good question. A lot of people said that they don't understand why it is ok for the NPHC to have very few non-black people in it but has any white people here ever went to a NPHC
informational before you decided to join a NPC organization or did you serious look into joining a NPHC group? And for people like sistermadly who was raised in a majority "minority" environment, what made you decide to join a HWGO over a HBGO?

I hope not! You are one of my favorite GCers so that would upset me a great deal!

I have my reasons. :D

Seriously - I do. And they're personal ones. It wasn't a big soul-ripping cultural choice that I was faced with. Why did justamom choose Alpha Chi Omega instead of any of the other organizations in the NPC? Why did you choose Zeta Sigma Chi instead of the NPHC/NPC?

I guess what I'm getting at is that the "why" of this question isn't relevant (to me). It might be to other folks, but I just went where my heart and head told me to go.

(edited to get ZChi's organization name right)

Well said Sistermadly :) I couldn't have said it any better :D