Re: See Thomas Sowell column today (3/6)
 

hoosier you really are a flame baiter you now that? You put comments on the board to purposely heat up a debate, how childish:rolleyes:

But really, GREAT THREAD! This has really helped me in understanding NPC a little bit more:D


QTE

I'm away from the board for ONE day, and this is what happens... sigh

Where do I begin...

Yes, I am an alumni member of the Phi Kappa Psi fraternity, California Beta Chapter, AND I am an African-American. I am proud of my fraternity, and the men in it, and I am saddened that this particuar man decided to de-pledge. I also, however, understand EXACTLY where he was coming from. My father is an Omega Psi Phi, my mother, my sister, three aunts, and six cousins are all Delta Sigma Theta, there is another male cousin who is a member of Kappa Alpha Psi, and I could go on. So, my family is HEAVILY involved in traditionally black fraternities/sororities. How did I end up a Phi Psi? Simply put, it was the best organization for me, and I have brothers that will be my friends for life. Isn't that what greek life is supposed to be about? We spend four (or more, in some cases) years in college, and then it's off to being an adult and being in "the real world". I don't know other GLO's, but I am sure that this could have happened in any other group. Every time I read about race and GLO's, I have to laugh, because I realize how extremely lucky I am to have attended a university where race was NOT an issue (EVERY IFC fraternity at Stanford is integrated, including the traditionally southern ones like Kappa Alpha and Sigma Nu), and to have parents who, while they were a bit sad that I didn't join Omega, TOTALLY supported my decision to join Phi Psi.

But on a lighter note, I always enjoy reading a Hoosier post, because I always know it will be something totally ridiculous. Guess what Hoosier??? I got into Stanford, and graduated in four years and I WASN'T EVEN THERE ON AN ATHLETIC SCHOLARSHIP!!!! I actually got in, and graduated with a pretty good G.P.A., and not once did any professor give me a better grade because I was black! Can you believe it??? There are a few of us who actually deserve to get in to these schools!
:rolleyes:

Re: Re: Re: See Thomas Sowell column today (3/6)
 

Hey ls22, how are you? Anyway, I wanted to comment to your post above...I disagree with one part I don't think Hoosier's prejudice is 'underlying' at all...I think it's rather blatant! ;) :rolleyes: 'Ya Know'!?!?

Not directed towards anyone in particular
It's rather funny that he never usually participates in the threads that he starts, he just posts something and sits back and enjoys the show...there will always be someone he can exude a response from. Although this thread has indeed provoked some intelligent exchange, usually his posts aren't worth responding to, and I don't see why some people use up their energy trying to 'school' someone who is insignificant to their everyday lives! I mean really, who is Hoosier...what the hell can he do for me, I could give a damn whether he liked black people or not, that's him being closed minded, and how does that affect me...it doesn't! Think about it!

Re: Re: Re: Re: See Thomas Sowell column today (3/6)
 

Amen.

Hoosier likes to start threads and then sit back and watch the drama ensue. And I would definitely agree that his prejudice is blatant -- either that or he's not prejudiced at all but severely in need of attention. Just check the titles of most of his threads for prejudice. There's no way that this wasn't wasn't meant to cause drama.

not to thread hijack, but this is YET ANOTHER anti-Greek article from my school's newspaper... GAAAH!!!

And what you guys don't see is the one that ran next to it about one of my good friends who is Hispanic and found a PERFECT home for herself in tri-delt... (about the only pro-Greek article of the year)

I like to respone to zchi's quote . While being a active member of my fraternity, I'm also active with Black Student Union(as Membership Chairman), the N.A.A.C.P. ( I was Chapter President for one term:D ) and the Black Studies Student Ambassodors. I'm very proud to be a African-American And I'm very proud to be a part of Sigma Tau Gamma. That's something that no one can take away from me. When I go to the African-American Cultural Center at school wearing my letters, They know me as Garth, not as the black guy who is a member of a white fraternity. I'm very fortunate to have my mom and my dad(god rest his soul) who supported me and not stand in my way of my dreams and aspirations. I understand the young man's plight and his mother's concerns, but the situation should have been handle better.

That story at the beginning hit close to home...

I am black, and in a historically white fraternity. My dad was in a HBGLO, and I was groomed to be in that org from early childhood.
When I chose my college, I went to a school where the IFC fraternities were larger, and offered more opportunity.

Luckily my parents gave me enough freedom to make my own way, and not be petty if I didn't choose to go to a historically black college, or join a historically black org.

Its good that my father sees now that the fraternity I chose has ultimately made me the well-rounded individual I am today, and that I may have chosen a different set of letters, but the purpose of my fraternity is still the same as his.

TRUTH

Thank you for the post.

Race not a Problem?
 

I have no doubt that you percieve this fraternity to be the best thing for you, nor do I doubt that it actually is the best for you, but my question is how did this come about? Were the men in the NPHC frats a bunch of hoodlums? Were they not focused enough? Did they not share your same political views? Style of dress? religious beliefs? Tastes in Music? I guess I am wondering what criteria, subjective or other wise, did you use to make this assumption? Because it would seem strange, to me in my closed mindedness :(, to see someone, a Black Man, in America unequivicably state that an organization full of men that don't look like you, an organization that isn't expressly focused on and concerned about your development as a Black Man in America, is better for you and meets more of your needs and expectations in a fraternity than a fraternity that is expressly concerned with those issues. I am not saying this isn't possible, I just want to be enlightened :confused:

Seeing that no one has really responded to my last posting, I will assume no one got the point, so I will make it plain, space integration does not and did not end racial inequalities!!! You say Stanford had no "race issues" and you justify this by noting that every IFC frat was integrated. So you are saying that Omega Psi Phi now has the same resources and Phi Kappa Psi? Did Phi Beta Sigma donate the same amount of money to a philanthropy as Sigma NU? Did (my dear) Alpha Phi Alpha place in the homecomming float pagent (hypothetically)? My point is spacial integration is a smokscreen, taking our sights off of true equality and diversity, Power and resource integration!!!!!!

Blackwatch!!!!!!

Re: Race not a Problem?
 

And I'm wondering why he has to justify his fraternity choice to you or to anyone else?

If there was one fraternity that fit every person, there wouldn't be 26 NPC sororities and Jeebus knows how many NIC fraternities. Hell, there wouldn't be four NPHC sororities and 5 NPHC fraternities. Everyone bases their fraternity choice on discriminating factors, and whatever those factors were -- be it the involvement, intelligence, or perceived thuggery of the members -- they're no one else's business.

I'm curious to know -- would you ask a brother who chose Harvard over Morehouse to justify his decision?

And one more thing - I should hope that no college educated Black man is looking for a fraternity to help build him up into what he thinks a man should be. I should hope that any Black man leads a far more diversified college experience, balanced out with academic activities, volunteering, spiritual and personal growth and would seek out additional avenues to help him grow into a well-rounded person.

For the record - I agree with some of the things you say, particularly regarding the inequalities that exist within the two systems. Raging against the machine is a good start, but without offering any suggestions on how the disparities might be overcome, it's just sound and fury.

Re: Re: Race not a Problem?
 

This is perhaps one of the greatest things I've heard on this board.

Not only that, why does he need to join an org that helps him develop as a BLACK MAN in America. Why can't it just be an org that develops him as a MAN, period?

I honestly no matter how many minorities a HWGLO has, someone's always going to say that they're tokens, or that there's stil racism within that CHAPTER, or something else, so why bother arguing anymore.

Ok. I might ruffle a few feathers here, but I'm not too big on being PC. Now all of you are right when you say this young man has the right to join whatever fraternity he wants too. Its his life and he has to do what is best for him. But as some have said before, there are just fundamental differences between the NPHC and and NIC/NFC/IFC. I'll give you an example. I have a friend who is a member of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Inc. ( she always has something to say when I don't put the Inc. at the end), and she went to their conference last summer where she met 40, 50, and even 60 year members of Delta. Now they aren't just members, they are just as much if not more active in their sorority now then they were when they became members. Now be honest, how many NIC/NFC/IFC members can say, 1) they attended their last national conference and 2) they have met ACTIVE members with over 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years of service in their organization in addition to service in the community in the name of your organization? Just because you know an woman/man who was in XYZ sorority/fraternity in college and they do community service doesn't mean that organization is active in the community. That means that person is helping the community. That is where the difference between NPHC vs non-NPHC organizations (NIC/NPC/IFC) lies. There's a difference between you doing service in the name of your organization and you doing service and being a part of an organization.
The bond you create and the committment you make to the community in in the name of your organization is a bond and committment for life, and I just don't see that same bond or committment after graduation in the NPC/NIC/IFC organizations. Thats what that young mans family was trying to get through to him. The people you cross with will most likely be your childrens godparents, your best man/maid of honor at your wedding, the one you can call at 4 in the morning when you need someone to talk to, the ones who 50 years down the road you can still depend on just as much as when you crossed, and are the ones you always see helping out in the community. Why? Because they don't take their pledge to their organization lightly. When asked, did you join a fraternity or sorority in college, you will never hear a Divine Nine member say, "Oh I used to be an AKA, Delta, Zeta, SGRho, Alpha, Kappa, Omega, Sigma, or Iota." They will say they are a member of that organization. Now I have heard non NPHC (not including other minority greek organizations) people say I was an XYZ when I was in college. Not gonna happen with black greeks. Its just different. Apples and oranges. This young mans parents knew hisroty and legacy of black greeks, and thats probably why they wanted him to join one of the 5 NPHC fraternities. Like someone said, it was more of an issue of NPHC vs non-NPHC and less of a black vs white issue. What I think people fail to understand is that black geek ties run deep. It goes deeper than just wanting your child to carry on a tradition. It's about wanting to further your bond with your child. To share common experiences with them. To not only be able to call them your child, but you brother/sister frat/soror, thats something special. To have them be a member of an organization that has been in the forefront of the black struggle for almost 100 years. To have them be a member of an organization that can claim members such as Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., Jessie Jackson, Arthur Ashe, A. Philip Randolph, Bobby Rush, Maya Angelou, Wilma Rudoolph, Zora Neale Hurston, and Hattie McDaniel. To carry on that rich history and legacy, thats something people think about even before their child is born. Thats something parents are proud of even if they aren't greek. I have seen more grown black men cry a probates when they see their sons join their organization than anywhere else. Thats how important these organizations are to black people. Thats how deep their love for their organization runs. I think my friend put is best when she said, "When I became a Delta, I became a Delta for life. When I graduate I will still be a Delta. When I get married I will still be a Delta. When I have my children I will still be a Delta. And when I die I will still be a Delta and my robe in heaven better be Crimson and Creme." Its just different.

I think we need to take a good look at the posts by Sistermadly and ksig600 (and not just because he's one of my bros).

You make some good points, Collegeguy, but I could easily counter them with my own experiences. I did indeed attend not only Kappa Kappa Gamma's last national convention, but my Province's most recent meeting as well. And while there, I met women of all ages who are still active members in Kappa, serving their sisters and their community in the name of the Fraternity. I know Kappas of all ages who have been maids of honour in each other's weddings, godparents to each other's children, and who still maintain close ties even twenty, thirty, forty years after graduation. When I became a member of Kappa, I became a member for life. So did my newest sisters who took their vows not twenty-four hours ago. In my mind, and in the minds of many of my sisters, that lifetime commitment has in it an inherent obligation to do what little I can to better the world around me. I did not take my vows lightly. Every time I witness new sisters taking them, I am reminded of my lifetime obligation.

So we're all members for life, and we should all be involved for life. It's expected. But people don't always do what's expected of them. Perhaps NPC/NIC needs to do more in the way of fostering that commitment.

I agree that there is a difference in the nature of the organizations. But please do not say that this young man must join an NPHC organization in order to find the sort of commitment you describe.