Okay,

I need to say something here. I had a friend who dated this guy who beat the sh!t out of her. I begged her to leave him, but she said that he was only teaching her to be stronger. Okay, how is that any different from some of the stuff I've read stated on this thread. No one who loves you or who is down with you beats you. Nobody who's family loves them does that. My Sorority is my family, so they build me up in positive and reaffirming ways, they don't tear me down, or claim to build me up by beating me down.

Just like women who get beaten, and make every excuse in the book for it. This sounds the same.

And, as far as I'm concerned the concept of paper is fine, but when someone uses it because someone in a Frat or Sorority gets the house in trouble due to hazing that's ridiculous. The people who beat the sh!t out of their frat or sisters should be the ones called paper, cause I don't think that any of the principles which an organization stands for would condone beating. And if they did, why would one chose to stand for that?

In my Opinion,

Kymberleigh

[This message has been edited by Kymberleigh (edited August 11, 2000).]

Charle, I got the wood in my frat also. 30 solid whacks on briefs, it stung big time, but I did not cry out for the most part, and probably made me more of a man going though it.

Peace & Blessings

People, people...first, it must be understood where the taking of the wood comes from, for the BGLOs at least.
It comes from the African Rites of Passage.
Truth be told,to the BGLO Sorors & Frat, taking wood only happened during hell week.
When it started happening from day-one of your process, I'm not sure, I wasn't there.
Personally, I don't think it's necessary because ANYONE CAN TAKE PAIN! THAT DOES NOT MAKE YOU MY SISTER/BROTHER AND IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU A BETTER SISTER/BROTHER.
My Sisters/Brothers know the history of their organizations and uplift their communities by being positive role models for our youth.
I find that most of the Sorors/Frat who toot their horns about being in the "century club (100 strokes of wood +)" always end up inactive after they graduate and you only see them at parties, step-shows, etc. You never see them at a conference or community service project.
Finally, those six or seven weeks that you spend on line are just the beginning.....you continually pledge your organization until the day you die!!!

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SapphireSensation
RoyalBlueDivaDivine
The Epitome of Finerwomanhood

I found something interesting and I thought that it seemed relevant to this thread. I apologize in advace for its length.


To be honest there are many who fall prey to at least one of these
situations. There is no easy way to say this, but there is one thing that
must be considered. If you fall victim to the previously stated situations
then it is possible that you were hazed and not pledged. If
you don't know why wood was used, yet you are someone who thinks
WOOD=PLEDGING; then I am sorry to say that you have a lot to learn about
pledging. If you think that being forced to stay up all night for someone
else's amusement is pledging; then you have got a lot to learn about
pledging. If you disrepect or look down on other organizations; I am sorry
to say you were not pledged. If you think that because you didn't take wood
that you didn't pledge; you might be surprised to find out it is possible
that you did pledge.

Pledging is supposed to teach three things. Loyalty to the principles of
the organization, loyalty to brotherhood/sisterhood amongst "ALL"
men/women,
and loyalty to the community from which you came. If you learned all of
these things, no matter what your process was
like, my brother...my sister you were pledged. If you did not...I am sorry
to say you were hazed. To all my Greek, Non-Greek, etc. brothers & sisters,
I charge you with two questions only you can answer. Were you pledged or
were you hazed? Do you pledge or do you haze?

And just a follow up...anyone can be physically intense; the challenge is to be mentally intense.

I am not going to down any other organization that does not pledge or take wood, but I have to agree with Charle. I don't want anyone in my frat who didn't. Why is it important; because it builds strength and resolve to stick with something through all types of adverse situations. I can guarantee you that Dr. Martin Luther King jr. who was pledged knew he could handle anything thrown at him because of his experiences on line, as well as his faith. The ordeals of pledging that make you stronger and a strong faith can make you invincible. If pledging is done correctly, you finish with an attitude that you can conquer the world if need be or make serious social change no matter what the cost. That's why physical pledging is important. Yes anyone can take a beating for a day. That is not the hard part; the hard part is waking up the next morning and going through it again and again. Some of you may say that its senseless; I say it helps create brotherhood, and determination to see things through, to never quit in the face of adversity.
All of you who talked about how the SEALS were training for war and that's why they do those things and ya da ya da ya da da. Have you ever read a book on the Navy SEALS or actually talked to an instructor. The books interviews say some of the stuff instructors do to students is just to create unit cohesion, bonds, brotherhood. Is a fraternity mission similar to a SEALS? In the sense that each one is trying to build strong bonds amongst men yes. Now do fraternities recon beaches in surf that is 55 degrees of course not, but do fraternities create marches that could be potentially hazardous to the marchers, absolutely.
So all this to say that pledging as far as I'm concerned is necessary in my fraternity. I don't believe someone can truly be a brother if they didn't pledge my fraternity. Oh and yes the hard part is not pledging that's easy the hard part is after you finished, but you need to earn the right. If you would like to see more of my views you can check out the Alpha Phi Alpha postings.

Here we go again....

What exact parallels again can be drawn between Seals and Fraternity members - - none.

The roles and purposes of membership in these organizations have nothing to do whatsoever with one another - you're comparing apples to oranges - something Charle repeatedly tried to do, without success.

I would NOT want anyone in my fraternity to have to go through physical or mental hazing to "prove" they have what it takes to be a "man"....hazing flies in the face of every single fraternal ideal there is: honor, chivlary, respect, patriotism, morality, dignity, etc........ and I'd like somebody to try to argue otherwise...you'll fail. Tell me how hazing exemplifies your ideals...you won't be able to.

Let me ask you this....do your parents (who more than likely paid for some of your college expenses, possibly even dues...) know what you went through in order to become a member? If not, why not? Don't give me the "secrecy of membership" tired response - certain secrets are esoteric, but, what about the hazing (which is not esoteric - it's illegal - there is a BIG difference)? Are they proud that you went through it?

Finally, do you really think Martin Luther King Jr., would approve of taking wood? Consider the legacy of Agape and nonviolent change that he left to all of us...another contradiction in your arguments.



[This message has been edited by LXAAlum (edited August 17, 2000).]

I do believe that pledging is a necessary part of the greek system. I do feel that it has become some bastardized form of what it used to be. Wood does not mean that you pledged. It means that you can get in the cut and take it. There are various reasons for you to take wood(assisting the line, screw ups, just because). I want a brother who will go through the fire with me, not just physically. If wit is a necessary weapon than I do not believe that someone who only got their ass beat can contribute. The God of the Judeau-Christian faith tested his followers that he deemed worthy. He saw something worthwhile and decided to plant a seed, nurture the sapling and watch it grow. I will stop being so self-righteous.

out

I think Martin Luther King Jr. took and gave some wood. At least thats what i have heard from some old school alphas. BTW Colin Powell took wood when he became a member of the pershing rifles (and he was willing to take some when he was looking into out org.)

It is sad, if one thinks that he/she needs to be physically abused in order to bond. The question is after all is said and done, what are you doing with your symbols now? Are you financial, are you active with an ALUMNAE CHAPTER? Have you been to a national convention and participated in developing grass-roots initiatives?

Or... are you only seen at your school's homecoming, sporting your brands/tattoos, saying your call, and/or hazing future lines.

I love my sorority, but I get frustrated when meeting sorors who were hazed and claim to be "real" and have not been active and financial in so many years.
A soror told me that the work begins AFTER you get into DELTA and NOT BEFORE. In my opinion, that statement applies to all greek letter organizations, especially BGLOs.

Is it common for a sorority that hazes (or used to haze) to take pictures of the event?
The reason I ask is because a link was posted on the movie "followers" message board that shows pictures of sorority paddling. It looks like its part of someones research paper or something. http://www.geocities.com/hazeandspan...g_pictures.htm
Some of the pictures are old, but do look real.

If I did choose to take wood, I doubt I would consent to pictures being taken.

First of all I would like to say that I believe that it was wrong of you to expose Charle, the way in which you did. I am a member of Omega Psi Phi fraternity Inc. I may or may not have recieved wood which is truly none of your business. But this I will say, what is hard to endure is sweet to recall. I know that many of my bruhs and I have all talked about things that have happened while in the cut, this is yet another thing which we share with each other. I did not nor will not ever let anyone skate into my fraternity. I will never allow anyone under me or next to me hurt anyone. Getting and giving wood is a techniQUE to be mastered. If you don't like it DROP. THAT'S REAL DOGG. I Just Love Cooper and Coleman

Wow. I just looked at those pictures. I'm not sure if they're real, but a couple of them look very real. Looking at those pictures and thinking about "sisterhood," I felt physically sick. I won't go on because other people on this board have already said what I've been thinking. Geez, counsellors and psychologists would have a field day with this board!

I think it's just some perverts website. Remember a while back a guy was asking about sorority hazing, claiming it was for research, asking for stories on paddling and whatnot.

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Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

Ewww....checked out that site...

...other than disdain and disgust, the only thought that comes to mind when I see crap like that, and, I see defenders of "cutting wood" post why they think it is essential is this:

If you think it is so important, and such a vital part of the process - why not use these pictures on your rush poster? Why lie? Show them the "benefits" of being a pledge....join us, we'll beat the crap out of you - it's the only way!

Ugghhh.....

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Don't be your brother's keeper; rather, be your brother's Brother.