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-   -   Kappa Alpha Theta at Harvard Closing (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=244297)

DaffyKD 08-20-2018 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreekOne (Post 2459252)

All the women-only groups are gone while the majority of the male-only groups are still operating "because they have been on the campus for a longer period of time"-- of course they have, Harvard was a male-only school until the 1970's. A blatant example of marginalizing the women on campus.

DaffyKD

33girl 08-20-2018 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaffyKD (Post 2459260)
All the women-only groups are gone while the majority of the male-only groups are still operating "because they have been on the campus for a longer period of time"-- of course they have, Harvard was a male-only school until the 1970's. A blatant example of marginalizing the women on campus.

DaffyKD

How is it marginalizing? The women are the ones who made the choice to cave. All of the men in those male only groups will still be denied the campus leadership positions and scholarships. The lobbying firm that the fraternities’/clubs’ lawyer is working with includes NPC as a client. I’m sure if the women had made the choice to be part of this suit, they’d have been more than welcome.

DGTess 08-21-2018 05:40 PM

If Harvard is so all-fired insistent on eliminating single-gender organizations, why are their all-male sports teams permitted to exist?

33girl 08-21-2018 06:30 PM

They also have all-female sports teams, so that reasoning really doesn't work.

ChioLu 08-21-2018 08:55 PM

I know Harvard is a private university but does It receive ANY federal assistance? If so, could Title IV be brought up as a reason to keep sororities all-female, especially since some of the old male groups can still maintain their 1-gender status? Because that’s discrimination.
Maybe Kevin can answer that.

AGDee 08-21-2018 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2459333)
They also have all-female sports teams, so that reasoning really doesn't work.

Sure it does. There were all-male and all-female final clubs and Greek orgs too. There's no difference at all.

As was noted in the comments of that article posted about Alpha Phi, the male final clubs will continue without any sanctions against their members because they are private, non-university affiliated organizations. It's like them saying that nobody at Harvard could be a Boy Scout or Girl Scout. Can't happen.

clemsongirl 08-21-2018 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGDee (Post 2459342)
Sure it does. There were all-male and all-female final clubs and Greek orgs too. There's no difference at all.

As was noted in the comments of that article posted about Alpha Phi, the male final clubs will continue without any sanctions against their members because they are private, non-university affiliated organizations. It's like them saying that nobody at Harvard could be a Boy Scout or Girl Scout. Can't happen.

The members who remain of the single-gender finals clubs will be sanctioned the same way the members of single-gender sororities and fraternities would have been or will be: lack of recommendations for scholarships or ability to hold leadership positions. Harvard could expel students who join these groups if they wanted to, but they chose not to, as this article details. My guess is they thought expulsion would alienate too many alumni from donating.

I also wonder how they'll know who are members of finals clubs or other single-gender orgs. It's not like they're getting rosters, and finals clubs don't come with stitched letters. Are they stalking social media for references?

33girl 08-21-2018 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGDee (Post 2459342)
Sure it does. There were all-male and all-female final clubs and Greek orgs too. There's no difference at all.

Sports teams are not social organizations, and it would be silly of us to think that the same kinds of membership requirements apply to both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by clemsongirl (Post 2459344)
The members who remain of the single-gender finals clubs will be sanctioned the same way the members of single-gender sororities and fraternities would have been or will be: lack of recommendations for scholarships or ability to hold leadership positions. Harvard could expel students who join these groups if they wanted to, but they chose not to, as this article details. My guess is they thought expulsion would alienate too many alumni from donating.

I also wonder how they'll know who are members of finals clubs or other single-gender orgs. It's not like they're getting rosters, and finals clubs don't come with stitched letters. Are they stalking social media for references?

Thank you, I don’t know why everyone keeps acting like the fraternities and clubs that stayed all male are getting off scot free. If they don’t care about losing out on scholarships and campus leadership positions, that’s their choice. This has all been by choice. I doubt that any of the sorority HQs would have shuttered a chapter here for low membership, given the circumstances.

Don’t some of the Greek chapters in Canada operate independently of their schools? The sororities at Harvard could have done that, but they would have still been subject to the sanctions.

thetalady 08-22-2018 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2459347)
Don’t some of the Greek chapters in Canada operate independently of their schools? The sororities at Harvard could have done that, but they would have still been subject to the sanctions.

I believe that the sororities are Harvard were ALREADY forced to operate independently of the school. There was no official or school recognized chapter of Theta at Harvard University. The chapter was not allowed to refer to Harvard in any published material. They were a "Cambridge" chapter.

GoldBows 08-22-2018 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2459347)

Don’t some of the Greek chapters in Canada operate independently of their schools? The sororities at Harvard could have done that, but they would have still been subject to the sanctions.

Those schools are not actively seeking to punish members. For example, Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario is notorious for being anti-Greek. Yet, three fraternities (Alpha Epsilon Pi, Kappa Sigma and Zeta Psi) and one sorority (Alpha Pi Phi) have Kingston chapters where their members just so happen to go to Queen's. They get by on that technicality, and I think so long as Greek life does not get much bigger on campus, the university is willing to let it slide. They don't have sanctions against students who are members of these organizations, to my knowledge.

GreekOne 08-22-2018 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetalady (Post 2459349)
I believe that the sororities are Harvard were ALREADY forced to operate independently of the school. There was no official or school recognized chapter of Theta at Harvard University. The chapter was not allowed to refer to Harvard in any published material. They were a "Cambridge" chapter.

The same is true of the DG chapter there. It was the "Cambridge" chapter before dissolving. And, the dissolution was at the request of the collegians who did not want to give up the other scholarship and leadership opportunities. Of course, they could have remained. But, at what cost??

As the Harvard administrators expected, the women felt it was better to end their affiliation with the national sororities and become Ivy, Fleur de Lis or Kali Praxi, etc. Time will tell if the remaining men's organizations will succumb to the same pressure or if they prevail in court.

DGTess 08-22-2018 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2459333)
They also have all-female sports teams, so that reasoning really doesn't work.

It does work when you realize Harvard is imposing these sanctions for the single reason of someone choosing a single-sex group.

If they really want to say that is contrary to their principles, then all single-sex groups should be contrary to their principles.

This is simply a way for Harvard to get rid of undesirables.


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