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-   -   Meanwhile at UCLA, Sig Ep and Alpha Phi do Kanye & Kardashians (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=193803)

sigmadiva 10-15-2015 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAblondeGPhi (Post 2375695)

But - I do want to recognize the limitations of my own perspective, so I'm coming at this with genuine curiosity and open-mindedness. Here we go:


...
At what point does the outfit cross the line?


I'm sure there were other costume variations at the party, so I'm sure that there were plenty more offensive than those listed here. But the thing is, I've seen plenty of "Tennis Pros/Golf Pros/CEOs and Something Hos" parties, or "White Trash whatever", or even "Famous Couples", and all of those are going to make fun of some group.

So is the real issue that the theme was "Kanye Western" and not "Taylor Swifty"?
The real issue for me is the need to purposely darken your skin for the event. Gold diggers come in all races, ethnic groups and genders. Gold diggers are not limited to one group.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DTD Alum (Post 2375697)
Appropriate Black cultural identifiers? By dressing up as gold miners? A profession that, by the way, was predominantly white? Or was it when they dressed up as a white woman?

95% of these parties, I agree with you. This one is patently absurd.
Gold diggers in the context that Kanye used it in his song is about women who are only after men for their money. The fact that a Black man is singing a song about that is really no reason to darken your skin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 2375701)
Not at all. Just pointing out that in this instance, you are being an asshat.
No, I'm pointing out that on the surface, it really does look like this NPC chapter was doing "blackface". Maybe that was not their intent, but it appears like it was. We can debate and split hairs over "is it really blackface or not", but I can assure you most people aren't going to debate the issue. They are going to go based on what they see.

As I said before, NPC / IFC / NIC groups have historically mocked other cultures for the purpose of a party theme. This incident may not be blackface per se, but it does fall into the realm of it.

DTD Alum 10-15-2015 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmadiva (Post 2375709)
Gold diggers in the context that Kanye used it in his song is about women who are only after men for their money. The fact that a Black man is singing a song about that is really no reason to darken your skin.
I know exactly what a gold digger is in Kanye's context. I'm not 80. That's not what the girls dressed up as. The girls dressed up as "gold diggers" literally as a play on the song title...they dressed up in flannel shirts, denim, and "gold pans" as if they were panning for gold in the 1850s. The "skin darkening" in question was a charcoal smudge on each cheek as if they were dirty from panning for gold, not blackface.

For pete's sake, look at the damn photos if you're going to get righteous about what they are dressed as. You clearly haven't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmadiva (Post 2375709)
The real issue for me is the need to purposely darken your skin for the event. Gold diggers come in all races, ethnic groups and genders. Gold diggers are not limited to one group.
Oh man. You really haven't even seen the photos, have you? You're right if they were dressing up as women that were seeking a rich man for money. I'd be with you 110% and I even said so earlier in this thread. That's not the gold digger they actually dressed up as. They dressed up as the country western one.

This rush to criticize without even understanding what happened is exactly what we are arguing is absurd about this outrage, NOT that GLOs often do throw parties that are offensive.

DTD Alum 10-15-2015 06:30 PM
I'll even help you out. This is the black face / gold digger photo in question.

http://dailybruin.com/wp-content/gra...48150425_n.jpg

http://www.alaskacenters.gov/images/...d290x222_1.jpg

Gdimom1 10-15-2015 06:51 PM
It was so clearly NOT. Blackface. Clearly dirt. Because miners are dirty. And apparently the one picture of a girl whose skin is all darkened who dressed like Kanye was you know someone with dark skin.

The people objecting made a mistake. They should admit this apologize and move on.

sigmadiva 10-15-2015 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaPoodle (Post 2373851)
http://dailybruin.com/2015/10/07/stu...-themed-party/

"Sig Ep and Alpha Phi draw criticism after ‘Kanye Western’ themed raid
BY JILLIAN FRANKEL
Posted: October 7, 2015 5:10 pm

This post and headline were updated on Oct. 7 at 8:22 p.m.

Several UCLA student groups are asking the university to respond after the Sigma Phi Epsilon fraternity and Alpha Phi sorority held a “Kanye Western” themed raid Tuesday night, for which guests dressed in baggy clothes, plumped lips and padded bottoms, or as “Kardashians.”

Kelsee Thomas, a third-year fine arts student and member of the Afrikan Student Union, said other ASU members said they saw partygoers with those costumes. Photos from the raid also show attendees with their foreheads covered in charcoal.

The presidents of the Sigma Phi Epsilon fraternity and the Alpha Phi sorority did not respond to several calls for comment. Student leaders of the Afrikan Student Union have asked the group’s general members not to comment until they meet as a group and release a collective statement Wednesday evening."

*click link to read the rest*
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTD Alum (Post 2375710)
I know exactly what a gold digger is in Kanye's context. I'm not 80. That's not what the girls dressed up as. The girls dressed up as "gold diggers" literally as a play on the song title...they dressed up in flannel shirts, denim, and "gold pans" as if they were panning for gold in the 1850s. The "skin darkening" in question was a charcoal smudge on each cheek as if they were dirty from panning for gold, not blackface.

For pete's sake, look at the damn photos if you're going to get righteous about what they are dressed as. You clearly haven't.



Oh man. You really haven't even seen the photos, have you? You're right if they were dressing up as women that were seeking a rich man for money. I'd be with you 110% and I even said so earlier in this thread. That's not the gold digger they actually dressed up as. They dressed up as the country western one.

This rush to criticize without even understanding what happened is exactly what we are arguing is absurd about this outrage, NOT that GLOs often do throw parties that are offensive.
So, why have a Kanye themed party and dress up as actual old-time gold diggers with charcoal smeared all over the face? The context of Kanye's gold digger and actual gold diggers are two different things.

Maybe it was just bad party planning.

DTD Alum 10-15-2015 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmadiva (Post 2375716)
So, why have a Kanye themed party and dress up as actual old-time gold diggers with charcoal smeared all over the face? The context of Kanye's gold digger and actual gold diggers are two different things.

Maybe it was just bad party planning.
Because they were making a (relatively clever) joke on a Kanye song title. Also, the party theme was "Kanye West-ern"...so, Kanye West meets the Wild Wild West. Hence the other country western photos that didn't make the news. It was a perfect blend of a Kanye West song title with a western theme that people took wildly out of context. Once the news started spreading, nobody took the time to think critically about any of this, and now there are hundreds of people whose names are smeared with ABSOLUTELY. NO. PROOF. THAT. ANY. BLACKFACE. EVER. OCCURRED. In fact, by this point it is abundantly clear that none actually happened, and yet the protests still go on.

Do you not see how this is grossly unfair?

ETA: It's not any different than dressing up as a "flash light" to interpret "Flashing lights". Or wearing a devil headdress and a blue dress to be "devil in a blue dress".

sigmadiva 10-15-2015 07:09 PM
So, in other words, they were really stretching it and the connection failed.

DTD Alum 10-15-2015 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmadiva (Post 2375720)
So, in other words, they were really stretching it and the connection failed.
So they deserve to be labeled as women who dressed up in blackface for life? Remember, the protests were not just about "an offensive party theme", but the allegations were that these sorority women dressed up as African-American women. Which absolutely never happened and honestly, anybody who thought about it for more than 5 seconds after seeing that photo would have come to the same conclusion. Their names are public in at least one case, and will follow them for life. It is reprehensibly irresponsible and unfair.

I repeat: I am not arguing that incredibly offensive themes, including real blackface, have happened many times associated with GLOs. This was nowhere near one of them. Somebody made a quick mistake about a costume, took no time to actually research what it was, and dragged a bunch of innocent people through the mud.

Gdimom1 10-15-2015 07:15 PM
I thought it was a marvelous play on words. On the West in Kanyes nane and on the Gold Digger song. If there was a white C and W singer with that last name who was one of our biggest celebrities and had a song with that title no one would have objected. The objectors didn't even stop to wonder what those girls were dressed up as. They just freaked out. They made a mistake and should admit it.

ChioLu 10-15-2015 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTD Alum (Post 2375718)
ETA: It's not any different than dressing up as a "flash light" to interpret "Flashing lights". Or wearing a devil headdress and a blue dress to be "devil in a blue dress".
That was a Halloween costume 1 year for me -- in a navy blue (AXiD) Betsy Johnson dress with red horns and a tail.
I probably offended someone in Hell.

DTD Alum 10-15-2015 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdimom1 (Post 2375723)
They made a mistake and should admit it.
Nothing will happen.

Hartofsec 10-15-2015 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmadiva (Post 2375720)
So, in other words, they were really stretching it and the connection failed.
No, in other words, the Afrikan org making the (apparently) false allegations of students in blackface and assumptions about gold-mining dirt was really stretching it and should have failed.

Unfortunately, the admin, in their rush to cya and appear politically correct, slapped sanctions on the party-goers with no evidence whatsoever -- and prior to investigating -- therefore implying guilt and exacerbating the damage to the Greek orgs and innocent individuals within these orgs.

Unless the policy of the university is that damaging sanctions are levied on orgs based on allegations alone, the admin responsible for the damage via their knee-jerk punishment should be fired. And the students who made the false allegations should be dismissed, as should those who intimidate any of the students in either GLO.

Hope the GLOs lawyer-up on this one.

Nanners52674 10-15-2015 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmadiva (Post 2375658)
I did look. They party was mocking a song by an AfAm artist.

Why don't y'all make fun of Luke Bryan, Kenny Chesney and Tammy Wynette. I mean, every C&W song is just ripe for mockery.
Wait what? White people can't use music by African Americans at parties?

You're seriously grasping at straws here.

Kevin 10-15-2015 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartofsec (Post 2375737)
Hope the GLOs lawyer-up on this one.
It's easy money where UCLA is concerned. The school might as well just get ready to write an apology and a check.

Not to mention they possibly have a hell of a libel suit against this Afrikan group. Especially if that group continued to push this agenda of hysteria after they would reasonably have known there was no blackface here. Our organizations don't really have a history of being litigious, but here is where there needs to be a huge exception to the rule.

Kevin 10-15-2015 09:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdimom1 (Post 2375723)
They made a mistake and should admit it.
Sigmadiva is a fine example of what you're going to find here. As wrong as you can demonstrate her to be, she would never ever admit she made a mistake.


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