Originally posted by UNFSigmaChi
Its not necesarily that I hate gay people..i mean hey i work at TGI Fridays in Florida, its like gay server central,
So are you saying that people that work at Fridays are gay? My aunt is a manager there, and she isnt. I LOVE how youre steriotyping... that must mean that if a guy is in the band, or dances, or acts that he IS gay, since youre saying that the people at Fridays are... *shrug*

but according to the ideals and values of which my Fraternity stands, I know that gay men shouldn't be allowed.
Again, does your ritual say IN WRITING that gays arent allowed? Then Im sorry, they are permitted... and thats also a form of discrimination, which hmmm... is a no-no.

I have met a couple gay sigma chi's and i've told them that since they are initiated I have to treat them as a brother, but i wish they hadn't been initiated and don't feel they are following our founders principals.
*claps* bravo! Youve just won my idiot award! How can you say you are a upstanding member of your org, when you openly tell your BROTHERS that you basically hate them? And can I say one word= HOMOPHOBIC. You are insecure in your sexuallity arent you?

And yes if I found out that one of my pledges were gay I would expell them.
Well then you may be losing a really great member.

I also feel that a gay Sigma Chi would not and can not represent my Fraternity well.
How? You arent representing your fraternity well at the moment.

Now if your organization's ritual allows gay men or women that is fine, but not mine. I know im going to get blasted by people, but you have no idea what my fraternity stands for so don't tell me that I am wrong.
I know that your org most likely stands for tolerance and acceptance since thats what most greek orgs are based on- compassion and acceptance... hmmm

There is a gay Chi Phi at my school who I had to work with when i was in IFC who did a lot for his Fraternity, but he also caused them a lot of grief for being gay and it hurts their rush every semester as well.
I applaud my grandfathers fraternity for being so up-to-date and caring about character and not about what a person is or isnt. If someone says "I wont join a fraternity cos theres a gay guy in it" then you dont want him anyway.


What i meant by that is sigma chi has very strong christian backgrounds...
Gluttony is a sin. Binge drinking is gluttony. If we want to be strict biblical people here, we can say that most of us are sinners... and there fore you need to not be in your org if it is so tightly christian based.

And christianity doesn't except homosexuality.
this sentance makes no sense. Its ACCEPT - meaning to be okay with, not EXCEPT.

We should all accept and promote diversity...afterall sigma chi's spirit says men of different temperments, talents and convictions.
Re-read what you wrote. Think about it. Read it again. Think more. Youre a hypocrite.

But accepting gays into Sigma Chi is taking that spirit too far from what the founders intended it to mean.
Were you there at the founding? Or are you a founder reincarnated? Did you have a seance so you could talk to them? Did they deal with this back then? Im sure they didnt say.."Hmm, in the 1990's it will be more accepted (theres that word again!) to be homosexual- so we need to write in our ritual- NO GAYS"

And as far as affecting rush...here at UNF where the greek community represents 1% of the student population, it does hurt your rush to have an openly gay greek person in your Fraternity. Rushee's see this or hear about this and don't want to be apart of the now stereotyped "gay fraternity." Now at huge colleges where greek life is 30%+ then i could understand it not being that big of a problem during rush, but unfortunatly here it is.
If people really care about which is the "gay" fraternity, then you dont need them. Clarion has a small greek pop too and I could care less what sexual orientation someone has.


Phi Sigma Sigma was, is and always will be based upon acceptance, tolerance and diversity. We strive to attain our goals, and we TEACH acceptance. We are told to look at women for what theyve accomplished, and who they are... not who they like, the color of their skin or their financial backgrounds!!!!!!


-Ignorance and intolerance are the two deaths of our society-

Wow .. such an old thread :) Always fun to see old topics still continuing be discussed!

Ya'll are making this issue (well by ya'll I mean just a certain few) to be 2-dimensional.

It's not a yes/no thing... there are all kinds of different things that play into it.

Moral values is one thing! I'll go out on a limb and say that if someone thinks the behavior is deviant than to them it is! For you to tell them that it's not is a little bit self righteous.

Respect people's values.

Next up... As I was saying this thing has MANY dimensions... Where you might say "If someone wouldn't join the house because there was a gay fella in it we wouldn't want them anyway..." BS!

First off, if that fella's values reflect that of the chapter than why not!?

Secondly, we have to be competetive during Rush. It's a very competitive time and the reality is whether you like it or not this stuff can really hurt you.

Remember you're not dealing with sophisticated people during rush. Typically they are 18-19 year olds fresh out of Highschool. They have a preconcieved notion of what they want in a fraternity. If your house doesn't resemble what they want there are usually lots of other places that do!

While PERSONALLY, I see not a damned thing wrong with it. I'd be proud to have someone as a brother as long as they have the character and the bearing worthy of my organization. As long as they take it seriously.... I also see that it's not just that simple.

It's all very simple. The brothers who are most devoted, put in the most time, and give the most money, are gay. The straight ones do a little bit here and a little bit there, but have other priorities; most we never hear from again, especially when alumni. Sad but true.

There are some exceptions.


Jono

Right on Sigma Chi
 

To the gay guy who posted this thread dont pledge TKE!!!!!!
We dont want you!!!!!!!
To The Sigma Chi Guy, I know we have had differnces in the past, but you are right on this one. It would make me damn uncomfortable to have a Gay Frater. How am I supposed to trust some dude thats a flamer to take me home when I am drunk and passed out? That dude could be trying to F-me. I know yall are gonna have the argument that not all gay guys want to jump on all straight guys.........But thats bullsh*t. They are guys, they will make a move at some point.
And I also agree with Kap sig guy, that if yall where really liberal, you would respect guys homophobic opinions on this.
I mean most guys arent gonna want a Homo in their chapter......He would not be accepted into mine that is for sure. We have the right to refuse anyone we want......Why shouldnt we? I think that this is even a subject on hear is a travesty to the United States, and the Greek Community. We are so inundated with all this crap about accepting homos for this and that. Half of this crap is MTV, and all the other liberal press that is shuved down our throats........I hate it......I can except gays, just not in my fraternity.........IM sorry I dont care what yall think. Even if my fraternitys IHQ standards accept them, our chapter will not!!!!!!!!

PS. I am not a WASP, I am Catholic. (Do not insert priest joke)

So are you saying that people that work at Fridays are gay? My aunt is a manager there, and she isnt. I LOVE how youre steriotyping... that must mean that if a guy is in the band, or dances, or acts that he IS gay, since youre saying that the people at Fridays are... *shrug*

So your aunt works at MY TGI Friday's....hmmm well unless your aunt had a sex change in the last year all the managers here are dudes. Jacksonville is the largest city in the US(land wise) so we have a lot of gay people in the city which happens to have a lot of servers at my store i work at.

Again, does your ritual say IN WRITING that gays arent allowed? Then Im sorry, they are permitted... and thats also a form of discrimination, which hmmm... is a no-no.

Don't we all discriminate...does your chapter accept everyone that rushes...cause if not then gee thats discrimination. I don't care if its cause they said something wrong, looked like a dork, too fat, too skinny, bad personality..whatever your excuses are thats discrimination. My chapter chooses men based on our jordan standard and one part of it is men posessed of good morals...and if I don't believe being gay is morally right then who are you to tell me that I shouldn't vote against him. Its my chapter, my Fraternity, not yours!!!!

You are insecure in your sexuallity arent you?

no im not actually. I have to work and talk with gay people remember...now if i was insecure why would I work in a place where about 30% of the employees were gay?!?! I just believe its not morally right and if they ask me how I feel about them being gay i tell them that.

Well then you may be losing a really great member.

Don't know how phi sigma sigma does things, but we here at Sigma Chi try to base our bid process on our founders written beliefs in membership are.

How? You arent representing your fraternity well at the moment.

Are you a Sigma Chi?!?!?! Then how dare you tell someone they aren't representing their Fraternity well. Especially based off of certain beliefs of mine. Do you knwo what my ritual is or know anyting about my Fraternity? I would never tell someone they aren't representing their org well based on a personal belief.

this sentance makes no sense. Its ACCEPT - meaning to be okay with, not EXCEPT.

Thats probably why im not an english major. Oh ya...and pointing out people's grammar mistakes is very very lame.

Were you there at the founding? Or are you a founder reincarnated? Did you have a seance so you could talk to them? Did they deal with this back then? Im sure they didnt say.."Hmm, in the 1990's it will be more accepted (theres that word again!) to be homosexual- so we need to write in our ritual- NO GAYS"

No i wasn't at the founding but I am one of the few undergradates on our HQ ritual committee so i think i know a bit about my ritual. Were you at your founding??? Then how do you know your founders wanted gays??? Or is that just your interpretation of your founders teachings???? I don't know much about your org so i'll let you answer that one....maybe it says to accept gays in your ritual but i find that unlikely.

Like ive said before, hey if your organization accepts people who are homosexual then hey fine. But based on what I know about my organization and my moral beliefs then I don't believe its right for them to be a Sigma Chi. Thats all.

PS. KDUTC....is your real name Ivory?!?!?!?! Me likes!!!! :-) How you doin'?!?!?!?! haha

I will not get into a point by point debate, and am not interested in name calling (liberal, conservative, homophobic -- whatever).

Personally, I believe that the arguments and statements against allowing gay members are sad and misguided. That does not make the posters bad people.

By the way, though, discrimination is against the law.

Technically speaking.... homosexuals are not a protected minority under anti-discrimination laws.

No sin is greater than the other

You're right.

In some states statutes have been changed to include sexual preference and in others they haven't.

I was thinking about the following:

"Don't we all discriminate...does your chapter accept everyone that rushes...cause if not then gee thats discrimination. I don't care if its cause they said something wrong, looked like a dork, too fat, too skinny, bad personality..whatever your excuses are thats discrimination."

Which I think gives tacit "permission" to discriminate on nearly any issue. Unfortunately, in many cases, he's right.

This thread is like the movie "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly", different posts suit different categories.

Hubby's chapter of Sigma Chi had a few Jewish members and one Gay that nobody knew (for sure) until later. (He fell off a float during a Gay Pride parade and died) During the course of pledgeship, the Jewish members became known and Hubby was like-What the heck? Jewish members in a Christian fraternity?:eek: BUT, it was a question of belief systems NOT the fact that they were Jewish. It did NOT affect his ultimate feelings for his brothers. He DID find it in conflict with the basic foundation of Sigma Chi. As a fraternity, it worked, but he always wondered how they could find the same meaning in the rituals as those raised Christian.

Each chapter has their own belief system as do individuals within that chapter. What works on one campus may not on another.
Blanket statements just don't work, especially when you are dealing with issues of this nature.

I think ktsnake put it beautifully-It's not that simple.

I hope that wherever an individual ends up, they are there for the right reasons and in a situation where they can be who they really are and not "hide". Otherwise, what's the point?

Originally posted by UNFSigmaChi
[Yes I feel homosexuality is a sin and that every sin is a sin no matter what it is, but unlike changing your ways on drinking, smoking, drugs etc, you can't just say Hey, i think im going to stop being gay from today on cause you can't. ]


Who are you to judge? Granted I don't understand why some people are gay, but I'm not one to judge someone by their cover! If Sigma Chi is based on Christian beliefs like you said then shouldn't you know the verse: "Judge not lest ye be judged." Maybe you should sit on that and think about it!

I don't know how I would feel about having a gay person in the sorority that I'm in, but I'm not going to judge people on their sexual orientation, b/c what they do in the bedroom is NONE of my business!

Whatever.............
 

KD girl just cause you blow a couple of TKEs doesnt mean you are a TKE. HOW DARE YOU LECTURE ME ON THE PRINCIPLES OF MY FRATERNITY! Just because you hang out with a couple of us doesnt mean you fully understand everything about our Fraternity, and it especially doesnt mean you understand my chapter, nor do you understand the mind of Men or even most Gay men. I dont know what little politically correct planet you live on, but you are naive to think that a gay man would not eventually try something like that. I mean stick up for all your gay friends you want, but dont try to say my founders would have wanted that. They where a bunch of rednecks from Illinois.
Not for wealth rank or honor, but for personal worth and character.............
Where doees that say let in Homos?
I dont sit here and talk about how some sororitys at my school exclude girls for being fat, or whores, or for low grades, and also for being gay..............I have seen that at so many different Greek systems, and with so many different National organizations.......Including your own KD girl, and I have no problem with it cause I respect their chapters decision.......It is thier chapter not mine.........So but out and say whether you would want some huge Dike in your sorority, that was always screwing up rush for yall, ruining your reputation, and also trying to hit on you twenty four seven..........
Its such a joke, yall are so hypocritical, all the sororitys never say anything about if they would want a gay girl in their sorority. Instaed yall get on hear and try to defend your Gay shopping buddies that snuck in the fraternitys in the first place. And thats all yall want, gay shopping buddies, and gay roomates, so yall have someone to talk to when Billy doesnt call you after your date...........Its so pathetic, why dont yall worry about rushing straight guys so you can keep these fraternity systems alive, I mean these guys arent gonna produce legacys, unless they fool some of yall naive women on this thread long enuff to have another gay son. Wher does this joke stop??????????? Blaise

TKEmz894,

I think maybe you should dial back on the rhetoric a little.

Your first sentence is dangerously close to slandering someone you don't know. Or maybe since it is written, it's libel. I can never remember which is which.

In any event, I think we can all make our points without using offensive buzz words like "homo" and "dike" (which is actually spelled dyke, I think).

Argue your opinion and we will agree or disagree, but argue it like an adult. More people listen to you that way.

Re: Whatever.............
 

Everything else in your message aside, I cannot believe you actually called your founders a bunch of rednecks. Was that supposed to be a compliment, as in they therefore would be against homosexuality, which in your mind is a good thing?

My sorority was a TKE little sister organization before little sis's were disbanded nationwide. For that reason if for no other I hold your organization in high regard, and I am extremely embarrassed for your brothers that you would say such a thing about your founders in a public forum.