Aren't these your words? Did you read my post? The part about as racism being as RAMPANT today as 1902. Secondly you are ALLOWED to voice your opinion anytime and any place that you choose. The reason that I say I don't care is because YOU and the others who have problems with my comments, are either not reading them or are only hearing what you want to hear!! If you read every post on here you should understand where some of these people in BGLO's are coming from. If you don't understand, don't get SENSITIVE and start claiming reverse discrimination. There's a good reason why you don't understand. YOU CANNOT RELATE TO W?HAT WE GO THROUGH AS AA IN SOCIETY! As I stated before I have LOTs of white friends who I consider family. So please KNOW what you are talking about BEFORE you COMMENT!

The establishment of WGLO's an BGLO's are clearly different. Our history, purpose, etc is different. (Think we have discussed the differences in detail, no need to go there again)
Are you aware that WGLO's had houses because it was considered prestigous. BGLO's established our houses, because although blacks were allowed to attend the universities, they were not allowed to reside on campus. Our houses were established to provide black students with a supportive and safe place to live while in college.


I don't have a problem with whites wanting to help, but do you have to be a member of a black organization to help? Is that the only way?

I could truly care less is WGLO's didn't want a black person in their org. I can't understand why a black person would want to join a WGLO int he first place. i went to a school were ther were WGLO's BGLO's, etc., and I knew a black girl that was a member of a WGLO for awhile, and she wasn't treated like an equal member. She later joined a BGLO. When BGLO's would have a prty on my campus, we had to have double the amount of security than the WGLO's and then had drinking at their parties. I have watched the WGLO's on my campus, holler racial slurs at us, attack black students and when the black students protected themselves, guess who got in trouble.

Quite frankly, I don't care one whit that BGLOs were originally founded during a time when discrimination and racism against blacks was common. The REASON I don't care is because, the last time I checked, the calendar said 2002 -- not 1902. Times have changed and our organizations need to change with them. Discrimination is not NEARLY as prevalent now as it used to be back in the days when our orgs were founded. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, mind you. But it is minimal when you compare it to 50 years ago -- heck, even 25 years ago.


I'm not sure if you are white or not. But racism hasn't decreased its just hidden better. Now I don't expect you to understand, so I won't go into a long explanation with examples



That comment is what separates my idea of philanthropy from APhiAce's version -- see, I don't think of whites as being my "OWN people". People are people, and I think we should help the ones that need it the most. If I used APhiAce's philosophy, then I suppose my local chapter of DZ would be looking for some new charities to support because, right now, our two main local philanthropies are an after-school program for low-income children in a predominantly black neighborhood and the Big Brothers/Big Sisters program. Can you imagine what kind of reaction we'd get if we went up to the BB/BS office and said, "We're willing to help out your organization, but we only want the white girls in your program." ???? :eek: :eek: :eek: Jeez, you want to get your name in the headlines fast in this country? Go do something like that while wearing the letters of an NPC sorority.

Ok, let's come back into the real world. Sweetie, that does happen. People, Organizations, Companies, etc. specify all the time about the make up of the type of people they want to help. I know this first had. I work for a major non-profit and we recruit for foster parents and we have a number of parents that strongly specify they only want to work with white children. And guess what they are approved as foster parents.

DZrose ,

I must tell you that you are incorrect in that assumption. I am not a member of a BGLO but first I must remind you that BGLO's are very large organizations made up of a variety of members each with unique personalities so it wou ld be inappropriate to make sweeping statements about how BGLO members feel and what BGLO members want because they do not all think alike.

Secondly, I would like to say that at my University that white students, hispanic students, and any other student who wishes to have attend many of our BGLO events including step shows, probate shows, and programs that the different groups have held in the past. In fact a friend of mine who was a vistor from another school commented on how "mixed" the crowd was at the last step show and these people have NOT been ask to leave one event that I attended.

I have also witnessed the collaboration between sororities in the NPC and sororities in BGLO's for a charity step exhibition in which the BGLO sororities taught the ladies in NPC sororities step routines and the ladies in the NPC sororities put them on for students on campus with the BGLO ladies hugging and congratulating them after their performances. Another reason for us NOT TO ASSUME ANYTHING.

I have also seen members of all BGLO's personally work in neighborhood youth centers with children of all races. Not just black children and I'll tell you what, every child there looked up to these members and were happy that these members took the time out of their day to spend time with them. In fact one of the BGLO's uses their own funds to put on a carnival twice a year for local community children and they are not only black children. Again, please let's not make sweeping assumptions.


I think it is very important to take in to consideration the history of many of these organizations. Although, it is 2002 it would be ludicrous to ask the members of BGLO's to forget the past because, Hey it's 2002 and there's not such thing as prejudice. If we forget the past we are doomed to repeat it. Rascism is still alive and well in today's society, it is just more hidden. Instead of calling you a name to your face people just wait for you to leave the room, and to me that is not any better.

Oh well, that's my non member take. I mean no offense just trying to inform.

V.E.

So let me understand that if one member of an organization feels that way, then you indict ALL BGLOs? Do you see how asinine that sounds?

Originally posted by dzrose93
Actually, I have. But my point is that, although I may have attended an event sponsored by a BGLO, the comments that I've read in this thread have indicated to me that I would be most unwelcome if I ever tried to actually join a BGLO.

First of all one would have to do more than just attend a party to be invited to join my organization.

But to be honest with you, No I wouldn't vote for you. I'm sure there are those that would welcome you. If I came across a white Delta, I would never disrespect her. I would acknowledge her as a Delta, but not Soror. But I'm one person and this is just my opinion. It doesn't reflect the thoughts of my other Sorors, Delta Sigma Theta, Inc.,etc.

Relax, Relate Release now Dexter, lol!

I think that dzrose is basically not addressing your or my comments because they don't fit in with her theory.

She has made certain assumptions that she doesn't care to have challenged and so contrary evidence (like your posts and my posts about actually having peple of another race IN OUR CHAPTERS) is dismissed.

We know this.

There are ALWAYS going to be members of BGLO's who don't want white people in our organizations. Do you know why? Because THERE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE SOME BLACK PEOPLE WHO, WHETHER THROUGH PAINFUL EXPERIENCE OR THROUGH SHEER HARDHEADEDNESS DON'T TRUST WHITE PEOPLE!

Organizations can only reflect the societies that compose them. I don't know whether they can even understand that when they talk about racial prejudice and discrimination, that those are things our PARENTS and GRANDPARENTS lived through- segregation was rampant when my Mother came to this country from Jamaica. I know that for people who are from America their parents and grandparents SUFFERED under Jim Crow laws. IT WAS NOT THAT LONG AGO that this happened! IT still lives on in our families memories and it will take more than one generation of white people going "Oh no, we really like you" for those memories to go away.

Did you know that BGL Sororities initially had things like Delta Beaux and MIAKA's because men were needed to PROTECT these women from members of the KKK? SO many of our purposes and our traditions are rooted in a sense of black unity and empowerment that for us to open our organizations to a non-black person requires a huge leap of faith for MANY.

To Discriminate, or Not to discriminate
 

I guess this hits at an essential question that I offered in another thread (which no one responded to :rolleyes: ), Is the MAIN focus of our orgs. community service or fraternal/sororital? If it is merely community service, then it seems obsurd to think that we would object to whites and gays within the ranks, for they can offer just as much service to our communities as any other person. But if we delve deeper into the fraternal ideal, we'll see that manly deeds, scholarship, and love for all mankind our the "aims" of the fraternity, but what is the "True Spirit" of fraternity? If this were strickly a community service organization, then why have "secrets" (such as hailing signals, passwords, grips, etc.). These things are not neecssary for community service. But we have these things because we want to have at some level, a sense of commonality and mutual agreement that we will not have with anyone else besides another brother. To have this commonality, there must be agreement on some level about certain values and ethics. Earlier in this thread, someone astutely noted that only 5% of black men are in a BGLO, this means selectivity, not everyone fits the criteria that was agreed upon in part by founders and now by brothers who are active as to who is worthy of the priviledge (not a right, but a PRIVILEDGE)to wear the letters A Phi A. So when a brother voices concerns about certain character traits that he deems unacceptable (whether it be homosexuality, white supremacy, or promiscuity or thievery,) his primary concern should be whether this man will be able to wear the letters and represent them to the fullest intent laid forth by the founders and the active brotherhood. It is not only about community service, it is about the "True Spirit of Fraternity" as well, this sets us apart from Big Brothers/Big Sisters or the Urban League.
Professor brings up a great point about the general organization's no discrimination policy. I accept it, but I feel this means that any man has the opportunity and can be considered for brotherhood, but does not guarentee every man will be a brother. Being a Brother of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, and from attending conventions and talking with officials within the fraternity, neither do I feel that the general organization feels that every man that wants to will be a brother, Black , White, Sraight,Gay, honest, Liar, or whatever. That's why membership, as they say, has it's priviledges.

Overlooked.......
 

Maybe if people would actually read the ALL of the comments instead of the title they would have seen the following:

"but, I feel that discriminating against non-blacks would be foul." -delph998

"We are apart of the same organization, we share common goals as far as the organization is concerned, so I must accept the fact that she is a Soror and let it be that." -AKA2D '91

"I did meet a White soror at our regional conference...before the conference was over, I introduced myself to her and gave her a hug, because she IS my soror, and I bet she has a hard time a lot, so I wanted to kinda make her feel welcome."
-Ideal08

"For the record, BGLO do not - well - Should Not practice Discrimination!!! - - - race and sexual preference "Should Not" be an issue." -Professor

"I KNOW a white brother of A PHI A personally. His name is Jamie and he is one of the most intelligent and hard working guys in the frat." -Dexter

"I don't have a problem with non AA or homosexuals being members of our organizations." -Zetaphied

the QUES
 

The main focus of Omega Psi Phi is Friendship.... Service is one of the facets of the Org.. but, there are many community service orgs you can join.

You've got to be kidding, right :confused: :mad: ? Sweetie, if I watch documenteries, talk with my parents, grandparents, etc., read history books that actually show the veiwpoints and experiences of Black people and not just what white people want to show, then I know that everything was just separate, definitely NOT EQUAL. Not to mention white people imposed it on us, it wasn't our choice. I have absolutely no problem with "separate but equal" as long as everything is actually EQUAL. And as long as each individual still has the OPTION to do what they want and go where they want, etc. I am fine with an all black neighborhood, HBCUs, or even all black companies. I personally love that. However those who don't should have the option to do otherwise.

DZRose did speak up and look what has happened to her. People are lined up out the door to bash her and it seems as though EVERYONE is trying to take words out of context in their replies.

DZRose didn't start a crusade against blacks, nor has she ever said that racism doesn't exist. She simply stated her POV because she was considered a coward for not speaking up previously. And look what has come of it - nothing but personal attacks.

Where are these so-called "solutions" that people are supposedly looking for? I'm still waiting to see the solution to racism -- and that IMO includes discriminating against a potential member in ANY GLO based on the color of his or her skin.

My momma always said to all of us kids -- "We do not hate. Period." Sounds like there are others on here of ALL colors that should heed that advice.

Again, feel free to PM me - my dang ol email stays full of spam from the V's and the lotto people who keep trying to send me a billion bucks.

"they" got some NERVE! ("they" gotta deal with racism TOO!)
 

"they're offended by this discussion & the comments by Dexter & Reds6 & Blackwatch & they want it to stop. they want the moderators to stand up and say that this conversation shouldn't happen."

How dare "they" try and dictate what we will discuss! They aint none of our MASTERS! We are FREE! We have the right to express our opinions. If this topic is too REAL for them, then they need
to skip this thread.

" by AXO Alum "

" Okay - so are you saying that you actually have SEEN homosexuals publicly displaying their "sin" -- I'm just wondering what the difference in sin is -- is it only sin when its public?"

I I've seen gays who make it OBVIOUS they are gay. Also if I find out thru trusted sources that someone is gay...I would go on that as I would with any other acusation of negative behavior. If it is not known that you are gay, and I can't tell, then you could SLIDE in Alpha under my nose. Just like if you were a rapist, gangster, or anything else I consider negative, you would slide in as well. But if I find out, forget about it. Its a sin whether its behind close doors or in public...but if I catch you...THAT is when I can block you from Alpha.



"Do you really think using the term "fag" doesn't imply discrimination?? Would you tolerate a gay man using the *n* word"

F*g and Gay mean the same thing...someone who is attracted to the same sex. The "N" world means "an ignorant person". It DOESN'T mean a Black person, though historically white people have called Blacks the name. A white person can be an "N".
F*g has a more negative conotation than gay. If you feel homosexuality is negative, then you tend to term it with the negative conotation. But, I will be PC and use gay. I don't believe F*g means a homo who should be discriminated against.

"I don't know of any GLO (red and yellow black and white) that seeks negativity. And yes, we all must judge people for selection. But that doesn't mean that any of us should overstep the boundaries of the criteria that our founders set for us."

I don't interpret homosexuality in line with our founders criteria for someone who exemplifies Manhood (which is different from just being male)
...just my interpretation. Further it is unrealistic for everyone to full agree with EVERYTHING their org says. So if homos get in, its a personal problem for me, not the Frat at large.
"MY" people means to me any person who is in need. ...And yes, it does sound racist and prejudiced when you say that you don't want to help anyone other than "your" people. Actually, it just sounds rather sad -- I would hope that someone would help you in your time of need because you NEED someone or something - not because of the color of your skin."

A certain group of people have been (and continue to be) oppressed by another group of people. I fall into the category of the ones oppressed so those are MY PEOPLE. White people aren't racially oppressed by anyone so there is no need to FOCUS resources on that race. Blacks and people of color are...thus the need to look out for ourselves (because our white oppressor DEFINITELY are not)
I don't have anything against helping someone in need. But white people in need have more resources available than Black people in need. So I'm gonna focus the FEW resources we do have for us ON US! Like I said, I don't have a problem if a white person gets helped by us. Our resources are for us SPECIFICALLY, and others COINCIDENTALLY. I'm targeting helping OUR neighborhoods. If whites live in our neiborhoods, then they will be helped too. Racism implies a power to oppress, which NO BLACK person HAS...There for I can't be racist. I can however be descrimatory and prejudice. Racism, Descrimination, and Prejudice are DIFFERENT words for a REASON (all though they are related).

"Think about the words you use when you describe others. And think about how you would feel if you were the one being described. "

I can see your point about using the f*g word. I can use whatever word gays prefer for their behavior...it all means the same thing to me. There is no need for me to try and make them angry with a word they don't like. As far as the harshness of what I'm saying...
the racial problem (which in my opinion is as relevant and strong as ever) is more harsh for Blacks then any white could EVER imagine. We deal with it EVERYDAY...but when it comes across some whites computer screen they want to BAN the conversation so that they don't have to deal with it. The reality is that life is unfair. And it is MORE unfair for Blacks than whites. The scale is tipped in the favor of whites. I will use ALPHA to help BALANCE the scale. If I equally add weight to both sides of the scale, it will NEVER be balanced. Therefore, I'm adding ALL my weight to the BLACK SIDE!

...Kudos to any white people who are trying to balance the scale...I appreciate it.

What? Because she stepped up and commented we are supposed to accept what she says with smiles and cheers? I admire her for speaking up but quite frankly I really don't think that she COMPLETELY read all of the post before she commented. Because she not only contradicts herself, but judges an entire group of people because of the way a few of them feel. Just like you who did not understand the replies that she got were making a statement not dzrosebashing. Which tells me that you really didn't read either. For instance refer to sunnydays96's post. Listen Tell everyone that is afraid to comment to join in the discussion. Because I think there are alot oif thse people who just don't get it and I would like the opportunity to explain it clearly to them.

No one has personally ATTACKED Dzroses but are just challenging her opinions. They same thing would (and HAS ) happened to me on various boards. Being questioned about something you say IS NOT a personal attack!!! That is not only howw you get to the root of things, but maybe even learn somethings new! (I did concerning the history of the Delta Gents and MIAKA's).

Re: White or Homosexual members
 

IN AN EFFORT TO GET THIS DISCUSSION BACK ON TRACK..........
To expand on Dexter's original question, what about other minority prospectives (i.e. Hispanic, Asian, etc.)? Just curious.......