Heh, I think a lot of people misunderstood me. I don't think wearing a pin is hazing, but under the politically correct crap that we have to go through today, pretty much anything can be construed as hazing. I think that's a bunch of bull. Personally, I would depledge anyone who wasn't willing to work to earn their membership. If I asked someone to learn about our founding fathers and he said NO, That's hazing ME!, I would dp him on the spot. But that's just me, and I love my fraternity a whole hell of a lot. But I'm getting off the subject. To finish up, cause I have to go meet up with some bros to go to the movies, all this politically correct bull sickens me. So what if he has to wear a pin? So what if he has to work a bit to get in? Nowhere in this world will there be anything that will just be handed to you, and GLOs are not an exception. I have not met 1 member of a GLO (fraternities AND sororities) who did not know a lot about their organization, who had a lot of pride in it, and who worked hard to make it better. To keep it short, Greeks rule, but TKE is the fraternity for Kings!

P.S. In case you didn't know, Elvis was a Teke. :)

Well according to a Dr. in KC he is treating Elvis! So if Elvis is alive, then he must still be a TKE!:)

What school did he attend?

I totally agree about knowing the History of Your International and your Chapter! :cool:

If they do not want to be part of The Organization, then get the hell out!:)

No one forced them to come to your House and No one is forcing them to stay!

Like it or leave it! In for an ounce, in for a pound! Not Beating On Pound!:)

We are all a selective Group of people and want people with the hopefully same likes and dislikes! If not then try to work it out for the Change of Betterment!

Elvis was initiated at our Beta Psi chapter, which is located at Arkansas State University. :cool:

Tom, I totally agree with what you say. I don't agree with hazing people, but I do believe that they should work for it, because otherwise it just becomes another club. :mad:

In regards to the truth about Elvis, I can't tell you guys, but I can tell you he's not in KC. :p

Anyways, thank you for the kind words. :)

Fraternally yours, Dragos

justamom,

Yes, they all do.

My National has a policy that conforms to FIPG and the NIFC. They are in fine print.

We all share the common ideals that our Fraternity was founded upon. We tolerate what has been forced upon the entire Greek community the best we can.

However, we (my chapter) will not ever compromise our Brotherhood. It is the same as it always has been, 30+ years. We cannot produce the Brotherhood that we do without the tradition. There is no other way.

Enough!

This is bullshit.

I'm tired of the pontification. Hazing does not equate to tradition.

Tradition is those ideals you talk about that your fraternity was founded upon. Tradition is what your chapter has done for your campus and national organization. Tradition is your alumni.

Hazing is something that is done behind closed doors and/or swept under the carpet to be hidden from the world.

Brotherhood comes from friendship and common experiences. Those experiences do not have to be negative in nature. They don't have to be force fed.

I've been around the Greek System for over nearly thirty-five years. I was hazed. I adise chapters that don't haze. Their brotherhood is as good as any I've seen over all of those years.

All things change. Hazing should be a thing of the past.

It sickens me to read Fraternal News and see the number of chapters being closed because of old line intransigence and blatant stupidity.

It scares me that a chapter and it's nationals and advisors can have their lives and organizations ruined when things get out of hand.

Has it occurred to any of you that the real reason universities are "out to get" the Greek System is because of our very own stupidity? The reason for obtrusive regulations, laws and unfair treatment is we aren't smart enough to know when enough is enough. We break the rules and kill people.

I can't tell you how many times in past few years I've considered giving up my alumni acitivities because some of our chapters just don't get it. Why should I put my and my family's future at risk because of some idiots. Why should I keep on fighting what appears to be a losing battle?

Why? Because I believe in those traditions and that brotherhood that hazing mocks.

Because I love what Delta Tau Delta was founded on and for. Because I think that the fraternal experience can be a good one and valuable over the course of time.

The first sentence of the Delt Creed is, "I believe in Delta Tau Delta for the education of youth and the inspiration of MATURITY so that I can better learn and live the truth."

The last is, "I believe in Delta Tau Delta as an abiding influence to help me do my work, fullfill my obligations, maintain my SELF RESPECT, and bring about that happy life wherein I may more truly love my fellow men, serve my country and obey my God."

The capitalization is mine. Nowhere does it say anything about hazing or harsh treatment.

I don't want to be around to see the end of the system. There are too many good reasons for it's continuance.

Let's all grow up.

hazing
 

Agreed. A lot of it is absolutely bogus. But it doesn't matter when your charter is gone.

I am a pledge this semester and some of the definitions of "hazing" crack me up! I wonder what is next? Will pledging be a hazing offense if I don't want to do it?
Another hazing problem I have seen is when one GLO uses a frivillous "hazing" accusation against another. At one school one GLO who was upset over another house getting more pledges turned that house in for hazing after seeing ALL of the members outside doing yardwork. They claimed the pledges were being forced to do it. The funny thing is, it was optional for pledges and mandatory for everyone else.

Trojan Girl

Well . . . And I am fully stealing this from someone else. The mandatory meetings that universtiry often requires for new member briefings, pledges rights, and anti-hazing information are some of the clearest examples of hazing that exist.

It is mandatory for the pledges and the organization, and the pledge cannot be initiated without thse meetings. In fact, if the organization initiates anyway, even though the pledge may have conscientiously objected to a mandatory requirement, the whole chapter can be sanctioned.

Just wanted to share :D

James,

So, if I'm reading that right, when a university makes a pledge or prospective pledge (New member, whatever) come to a meeting to talk about pledging, the UNIVERSITY is hazing.

But if a pledge refuses to attend the meeting and thus be hazed, the entire chapter can be punished.

Catch 22.

I love it.

Absolutely, I love hearing the weasling excuses that an administrator (remember they are often non too bright) will give you as they start talking about the spirit of the law vs. the letter, while at the same time asking our chapters to adhere to the letter.

I don't mind hipocracy or blatant use of power and position, I just hate to have it sugar coated. If you are going to shaft us, tell us, don't try to stroke us first to make us happy with the idea or themselves to be less the bad guy.:rolleyes:


:rolleyes:

Rule Of Thumb
 

If you do not want it done to you, do not do it to Others:)

If you smile and turn the other cheek, you will lose in the long run as to many people are looking over shoulders to find fault with what you do!:cool:

DeltAlum,

The bottom line is that you choose to roll over to the expectations of the PC lawmakers. Why you chose to do so, only you can answer. Maybe it did not produce a drastic change to your Chapter. For my Chapter, it would extinguish the very soul of our existence.

When I endorse hazing, it is NOT the forced drinking, beating, 'taking wood', or anything else that is or could be hazardous to the pledge or the Brothers.

The hazing that my chapter endorses is limited to a very strict script. One that we have used for over 30 years. When one of our 50+ year old Alumni sits down with a 18 year old new Brother, it's a sight to behold. Its like they have known each other for 18 years. You cannot create that ANY other way. The only parallel I can think of is an old and a young Marine. Even thought they may have never met, they share a bond that only they understand. So do our Brothers.

Many of the issues discussed here as hazing is a foundation of our pledge period. Pledge pins are worn at all times, even in the shower. No exceptions and you could get balled for it. Pledges always walk behind and to the left of a Brother. A pledge is to never be alone outside of the academic or dorm buildings. They must be 'carried' (have another pledge or a Brother with them) everywhere they go. They can never use the front door of the house. The list goes on and on, but it is never dangerous.

It is also possible for a fraternity that hazes to have a very poor brotherhood.

N2

Nope. You're wrong.

I choose to obey the law. The reason for that is that I don't want my chapters closed. I want my fraternity to be able to get insurance. I don't want to be sued myself. I want our chapters to live in relative harmony with the university and other GLO's.

I AGREE that some definitions of hazing are stupid. None of what you explain on your partial list is a problem for me personally -- except that it's illegal. I don't know why it's illegal. I'd love to see it change. But I'm a grown up and have a job and family and I don't have time to lobby university administrations and state legislatures. I wish our nationals would, and try to bring some sanity to this whole mess. So why aren't they? Maybe because they know that it's a losing proposition. As James, I think, pointed out, some administrators aren't all that bright -- and that kind can be the most difficult to reason with.

So, our Delt chapters will either follow the rules, or risk being closed or reorganized.

By my Fraternal Oath, I swore to support my fraternity and not to harm her in any way. I'll bet your oath said something similar. As a division officer I am expected to carry out the rules and regulations made by our Arch Chapter and Undergraduate Council. Kind of like a lawyer, who is a sworn officer of the court, who doesn't agree with a law, but must advise his/her client to obey it or be ready and able to pay the consequences. Like a cop who is duty bound to enforce a law that he/she may not agree with.

Please, let's not hide behind this "PC" thing. Had the term been "invented" in my college generation, those who made the decision to dodge the draft and/or move to Canada (and no, before it even starts, I was not one of them) would have considered those who decided we would serve in Viet Nam as "PC." Whether we agreed with the war or not. That term is a total copout. It's a propaganda tool used to describe compliance by anyone with anything that anyone else doesn't agree with.

So, let's cut the garbage here. I'm tired of hearig about it. Either live with it or change it. Until that happens, though, fight it at your own peril.

By the way, N2, the above comments are made mostly about the things you write on your list. I would love to see the rest of the list/program. I have absolutely no tolerance for ANY action which endangers the health or safety of any human being.