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There is a demand for abortions beyond 20 weeks- The Gosnell case makes this argument. He could barely meet the demand...

Making abortions illegal only means that people like him will thrive, and that women will die or be maimed for life.

I find it ironic that all the "pro-life" politicians are the same ones who are against free health insurance for children...raising SNAP benefits...welfare in general, raising minimum wage, affordable healthcare, government assistance with childcare, Section 8 housing, and lowering the interest rate on student loans. Effectively all the things that help someone, economically, decide to HAVE an abortion. If you care about fetuses, why not children? Why stop programs like Head Start? Why underfund urban districts? You want the baby born, but if it has no access to healthcare two years down the road, that's okay?!

Who do you think is having all these abortions, women who are one semester away from a degree in a high-paying field, with a committed fiancé? No, it's poor women who, along who their children, would greatly benefit from the so called "socialist" programs they love to hate.

And how about just not getting pregnant at all? Wait- we continue to cut access and funding to birth control for low-income women. So that's not going to happen...

Ok. That's all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 (Post 2224930)

Maybe I'm still not expressing all of this in the best way, but that's the best I've got... for now anyway... it's late. :)

No, I understand much better now what you're saying. Thank you, and sorry if I overreacted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel (Post 2224944)

Yeah...no. I'm about as liberal as they come, but I wouldn't be composting, and I wouldn't pay a fine either. That's the most intrusive, ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Just because a vocal group gets something passed doesn't make it right or constitutional. I think you are missing the point behind the argument.

I think perhaps this points up that these discussions and the way we view these matters involve a variety of considerations and influences that we have to sort through, balance and sometimes reconcile -- not just, say, religious/environmental views of right and wrong, for example, but also views on things like the proper role of government.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *winter* (Post 2224951)

There is a demand for abortions beyond 20 weeks- The Gosnell case makes this argument. He could barely meet the demand...

Making abortions illegal only means that people like him will thrive, and that women will die or be maimed for life.

I find it ironic that all the "pro-life" politicians are the same ones who are against free health insurance for children...raising SNAP benefits...welfare in general, raising minimum wage, affordable healthcare, government assistance with childcare, Section 8 housing, and lowering the interest rate on student loans. Effectively all the things that help someone, economically, decide to HAVE an abortion. If you care about fetuses, why not children? Why stop programs like Head Start? Why underfund urban districts? You want the baby born, but if it has no access to healthcare two years down the road, that's okay?!

Who do you think is having all these abortions, women who are one semester away from a degree in a high-paying field, with a committed fiancé? No, it's poor women who, along who their children, would greatly benefit from the so called "socialist" programs they love to hate.

And how about just not getting pregnant at all? Wait- we continue to cut access and funding to birth control for low-income women. So that's not going to happen...

Ok. That's all.

It is still a very small number of abortions, and very few providers perform them. That may be why he had a glut of patients. When a patient needs a late abortion, it's not as easy as going to your local abortion clinic. The patient has to be referred to a practice that performs these cases because the procedure is more difficult than the much easier early abortion. This is why patients with fetal anomalies get caught in this web. Diagnostic testing pushes you out beyond twenty weeks. The Gosnell case isn't as instructive as you would think unless you were looking to see what a depraved mind is capable of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel (Post 2224962)

This is why patients with fetal anomalies get caught in this web. Diagnostic testing pushes you out beyond twenty weeks.

As does, for many women, raising the funds to have an abortion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2224975)

As does, for many women, raising the funds to have an abortion.

This can be even worst I'm sure if the woman is in one of the states that limits abortions and has to travel a good distance to get one.

Ugh... I loathe that every time the 20 week bans are discussed, the conversation turns to the earliest possible live birth and other anecdotes. Medically, viability refers to the point in gestation at which, with EXCELLENT medical care and a lot of LUCK, about ***HALF*** of fetuses could possibly survive... and even then they are looking at lengthy and expensive NICU stays. It's essentially a 50-50 point in development. Viability is NOT 20 weeks. So essentially these bans are arguing that there is no real acceptable reason for abortion at a point in which only anecdote and conjecture exist for successful live births.

Abortions after 20 weeks account for about 1 1/2 percent of all abortions performed in the US each year... the profound majority are performed on women with wanted pregnancies that developed abnormally with fetal conditions incompatible with life (see: anencephaly) and in cases preserving the life/health of the woman.

This is nowhere near a "middle ground" issue... unless you think forcing women to carry malformed pregnancies to term against their will is a swell idea.

Folks with shit for medical expertise need to excise themselves from other folks' medical decisions. End of story.