Two things:

-One of my students stayed after school for tutoring yesterday. He shared with me that I made him think he wanted to be a math teacher. :o

-It makes me so happy, as a math teacher, to see someone who remembers all the gobblety-gook and how to utilize it.

@MC: I never knew your son was on the spectrum (not that you advertise it), but those are some of my favorite students.They have....such a way with words.

I remember all this because I too am a math teacher. That probably takes away from the excitement you had of someone knowing this.

You're right, it does. Here comes the rain onto my parade. ;)

The first part made perfect sense to me, though I never would have thought of it in terms of a linear equation. The second part on graphing it, not as much. I think I could figure out how to do it, but to me, it seems like a lot more trouble than it's worth. Frankly, it would never occur to me to want to graph it or to feel the need to. I'd stop at knowing what the numbers are; that would be enough for me.

You see why I'm challenged in telling him how he'll use this later in life -- I don't use it, or I use it without realizing it, and therefore without appreciating the value of it. :o

They certainly do. :D

Back in high school I aced math and barely had to work at it. Slept in a lot of those classes but the teachers wouldn't give me a hard time about it since I did so well and almost always had the highest grade, often over 100%. Looking back, I wish they challenged me a lot more or recommended that I take more difficult classes.

I remember classmates asking teachers "what do we need to know this stuff for" with the answer nearly always being something about shopping, usually at the supermarket. The best I could tell my friends at that time was knowing algebra really well helped some in Chemistry class and a lot more in Physics.

When I took Calculus in college is when I started to realize the significance of Algebra. Not an official answer from a professor or anything, this is just the conclusion that I came up with:

Algebra is pretty much the basic building blocks to other forms of mathematics which enable you to solve really interesting and important real-world problems.

Knowing algebra (and trigonometry) enables you to better learn & understand Calculus. With calculus you can solve problems such as determining the strongest geometric shape for a particular structure that needs to handle a specific stress load, determining the weight of an astronaut (or something else) a specific distance from the surface of the Earth or even things like determining the optimal design for a rain gutter so that it has the capacity to handle a specific flow of rainwater runoff from the roof while at the same time minimizing the amount of materials to construct the gutter in order to minimize construction costs. You can't get those answers with algebra alone, afaik, but by learning algebra you can then learn calculus where you are able to solve those types of problems.

If you compare learning math to learning a language...
- Learning letters would be like learning numbers
- Learning to spell words is like learning basic arithmetic
- Learning to write sentences is like learning algebra
- Writing essays might be like solving problems in Calculus
- And then writing books might be like solving larger problems with higher levels of mathematics

Maybe all of that will help with explaining how algebra fits in and what it enables you to build up to in math.

I won't have to take econ at all, with an expect graduation date of next May- but I'm also pursuing a BFA, so take that as you will.

My degree is fairly recent (<5 years) and I didn't have to take any econ courses. NIt wasn't required for psych majors.

Econ is an option for my current degree, though I think it might have been required at NJIT. I liked it though. It was a break from real math.

A number of people suggested this kind of comparison, and this seems to be the approach that got some traction with son -- the idea that he's still learning the language and that once he has the language down, he can use it creatively. Fingers crossed.

Thanks again for all the ideas, everyone.

Econ is not a requirement at SC for any non-business/econ/math-related degree that I can think of ATM. Then again, math isn't a requirement for a very large number of SC degrees. Science is, though... :(

Using his hobbies, it seems like karate could be used for "story problems" (although there's quite a bit of physics mixed in) because you're looking at doing things like breaking a pile of bricks with your foot or hand based on force expended, angle, etc.

I know it's difficult for him, but he may need, at some point, to grasp "Sometimes we have to do and learn things just to train our brain to work that way." Or, more concretely "School is your job right now and sometimes you have to do what the boss (teacher) wants you to do. When you are older you can pick a job that doesn't require this from you, but this is the job you have right now."

A few other practical applications that I can think of is... you are supposed to have a 5% grade around your house to help prevent basement flooding/foundation damage. That's a slope. The floor in your house has to be less than a certain slope to lay pergo or ceramic tiles properly.

Other random thoughts from this thread: I did not have to take Econ or Math in college at all. My major had so many pre-reqs and major classes that neither was required. My first grad school attempt however required grad Stats so I had to take an undergrad stats class first. My current grad degree requires no math prior but my encryption class does involve a bit of math, I hear. *Not looking forward to that*

If he is interested in history and reading, go to the library (are those around anymore?) and check out books about the history of algebra. Also use his love of reading as an algebra problem. If I can read x pages per hour, and the book I want to read is y pages long, how long will it take me to read it? Algebra is useful when planning ahead to make sure you have enough time to complete tasks.

OK MC - I know that we are talking about your son, but has anyone seen these?

http://www.amazon.com/Math-Doesnt-Su...2508229&sr=1-5

They are written by Danica McKeller (Winnie from the Wonder Years) and supposed to be really good (provided you are a 13-year-old girl).

I also have to add that I didn't like math and was actually told at one point (in third grade) by a teacher that I would never amount to much because I wasn't very good at it. (Good enough to be in the Honors class, but I struggled to keep up). Anyhow - mom sent the teacher an invite to Commencement when I got my Ph.D. :rolleyes:

I actually wish I had taken more math in college, not because I use it every day, but because I have to have an idea of what I am seeing or what other data is presented is reasonable. Is my technical instrument working and or are these computational results reliable?

The example I have that I use all the time is - if there are 3 midterms that will constitute 60% of your grade, but you get to drop the lowest of the three, and the final is worth 40%, how do you figure out what grade you need to make on the final to get an A for the semester?

{90-[(x+y)/2]*.6}/0.4 = Final

Another way to get young MC's attention - he needs to know algebra so that when he is a big hot shot, he can tell if his accountants are telling him the truth or have an idea if his employees are skimming off the top.

ETA: LOL Thought of another one - I need algebra to know if the numbers from the RFM program are legit or if there's been a mistake.

This is what I was getting at early in the thread, though. He can easily figure out how long it takes to read the book using the formula you describe as that is pretty basic, which leads to the next question: "I've known how to do that for years, so why do I need to learn all this other stuff?"

As for reading, maybe I should have been a little more specific -- he likes to read fiction. He likes history if it's the history of something he otherwise finds interesting. If mom or I suggest something he might like to read, that's almost a guarantee that he won't read it (welcome to the world of the teen-age boy). So reading a history of algebra just isn't going to happen. (And I can't say I'd disagree -- the mere thought of it makes my eyes glaze over.)

I've heard they are quite good, but again -- 14-year-old boy.

LOL. I would say that looks like Greek to me, but I can at least make heads or tails out of Greek.

We are seeing some improvement -- slow but sure improvement. Like I said upthread, the idea of thinking of it as learning the basics of the language seemed to get some traction. And frankly, we're finally getting traction with the "because you have to sooner or later, and the sooner you deal with it, the sooner you won't have to take it anymore unless you want to." I think he may (finally) see high school on the horizon and he knows grades will matter then.

Thanks again to all.