No the point of YOUR post was that you associate rape with sex and told women to stop being so dumb. The only place where YOU were an idiot was when you failed to notice that I was replying to 33girl which ironically was the only part of the post you actually responded to.

So, LTR. Til then, my "What the fuck" at your crazy rant stands.

IT IS NOT ABOUT SEX.
RAPE IS NOT ABOUT SEX

And most rape victims are not drugged and they are no more responsible for their rape than someone who is, in your opinion, stupider than men.

Sigh of relief.

It read like you were seriously trying to inform "younger women" about men and how men were ruled by their penises. You were just being sarcastic and don't really believe that. Good.

Personal assessments aside, there are researchers who posit that rape is a heinous and inexcusable act that is motivated by sexual fulfillment. They propose that the debate over the motivation doesn't minimize the heinousness of rape or excuse the actions.

In response to those researchers, others propose that some rapists do so for sexual fulfillment but the majority do so for dominance. The research on rapist motivation is relatively scarce on either side. The support for the notion of rape as dominance instead of sex is partially rooted in studies of offenders and victims; but mostly rooted in the push for rape victims to be seen as more than sexual pawns who tempted and sexually enticed a horny offender.

@ bolded. Citation needed.


Some researchers say a lot of things, but mostly I see this out of the mostly misguided, imo, evo psych. Evolutionary psychologists like to argue that rape is natural. Some, though not all, are careful to condemn it at the same time. Evolutionary psychologists are also incredibly unscientific by specifically selecting the behavior of other animals and comparing it to humans and then attempting to apply motivations based on evolutionary success. I've not seen anything out of evo. psych. that I'd consider valid. The Rationally Thinking podcast addresses many of the issues I have with the quasi-field.

There is a sexual component to rape by the nature of the act, but that isn't the same thing as saying it's about sex. Many rapists are also having consensual sex. Many rapists rape someone with whom they regularly have consensual sex, or have in the past. Elderly women, children who are raped/molested by non-pedophiles* and so on.

AA's rant was absolutely nonsensical to me on every ground, and any satire was lost by the focus on the guy not being able to get any and the reduction of men to their penises. It did more to excuse rape than 'satirically' call it out.

That and the fact she responded to the wrong reply.

The problem that I have with your logic / rationale is that you are putting adult women on the level of children - people who are incapable of fully protecting themselves.

I never suggested that the guy can and should get away with it.

What I'm saying is that as women we may have to exercise a little more judgment than men. That is to say use some common sense too.

If a girl at a party gets drunk and goes upstairs with a guy, what does she anticipate will happen? That he is going to do her taxes?

As long as you put drole at that level, you'll save yourself some time.

@ Drolefille

No, not only (psychologists and) evolutionary psychologists take that approach. While I consider rape to be about control and domination, I also have extensive knowledge of the limited rape as sexual fulfillment literature and research. The rape as power and domination research (not just theory pieces) is also relatively limited.

I don't necessarily agree with the rape as sex perspective and am quick to tell people "rape is about power." However, my response is after having read the "rape as sexual fulfillment" literature and agreeing with some components of it.

Rapists are like any other motivated offender in that there are different theories and research findings about why motivated offenders do what they do. There is much less research about why rapists do what they do than there is about why other offenders do what they do. Agree or disagree, whether rape is motivated by power, sex, or a combination of both is not a closed debate. All of these issues warrant continued discussion and research for further knowledge and understanding. So, yes, "some researchers say a lot of things" and I welcome all of this research and discussion regardless of whether I personally agree with all of it.

*****
For people who want to read some of the literature on both rape as motivated by power and rape as motivated by sex:

(1) Some consider these two books to be the main originators of the rape as power perspective:

(a) A. Nicholas Groth and H. Jean Birnbaum. 1979. Men Who Rape: The Psychology of the Offender.

(b) Susan Brownmiller. 1975. Against Our Will: Men, Women and Rape.


(2) Christopher Jarvis. 2004. Rape Myth Acceptance and Rape Proclivity. Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 19: 4, p. 427.

(3) Patricia Smith. Rape and Equal Protection. 1956-Hypatia. 19:2. Spring 2004, pp. 152-157 (Review).

(4) KK Baker. 1999. Sex, Rape, and Shame. Boston University Law Review. 79:3. p. 663.

(5) James Tedeschi and Richard B. Felson. 1994. Violence, Aggression, and Coercive Actions. American Psychological Association.

Good question. I was the pledge trainer and evidently someone thought it would be funny. It was not and there was hell to pay. I never did find out exactly who did it but I blamed them all and they all suffered for it.

EMS even asked my girlfriend if I was capable of making it back. It was that bad. She somehow convinced them that I was. I was totally out of the loop when she was walking/dragging me back to the apartment with the help of some brothers. I remember nothing until I set up on the couch and wondered where the hell I was. These type drugs are not funny and are only used/abused by losers. The experience was terrifying and I feel for anyone who has ever been the victim of this type drug and experience. You are totally under the control of the drug and at the mercy of whomever or whatever.

Will do. ;)

In other words, you are talking about victim precipitation (which is NOT synonymous with victim blame) and victimology. Victimology is extensively studied as is offender motivation.

In that case, I agree with you. As long as people know that the average rape is not a result of a victim who chose to get intoxicated or drugged and decided to hang out with potential offenders. And as long as people aren't stuck in "but why did you do that...you should've known better." After we note the instances in which the victim could have made smarter choices, there is a need to move on to determine (whether and) how the alleged perpetrator should be held accountable.

(You aren't saying "boys will be boys" or anything of that sort.)


This really bothers me. I just can't even imagine. This is another example of why both women and men need to be careful and smart. Not everything is preventable but some things are.

I guess... I don't know all the sociology jargon.



No, but I think we need to be honest and admit that they will. Once we acknowledge this, then we as women can be better prepared to defend ourselves.

Nevermind, I was actually giving your perspective more credit than was due. You are saying "boys will be boys." That isn't what victim precipitation and victimology are about.

They won't if people don't act as though it is inevitable. It is all about socialization and what the aggregate allows. Therefore, I as a woman refuse to acknowledge that and am well prepared to defend myself without acknowledging that. I urge other women to be safe and well prepared without acknowledging that nonsense.

"Women protect your rep and guard your vaginas from those crazily unpredictable men who may be rapists!"

OH NOES MEN ARE OUT TO RAPE US!

And there really is no way to insist upon "boys will be boys" without making the primary status of men that of rapist or potential rapits. "Boys will be boys" implies that males are going through life with their balls in their hands and oblivious to anything beyond their balls. As a result, they can intentionally or accidentally become offenders. I feel sorry for them. :( Awwwwwwwww. Poooor babies.

It's funny because sigmadiva said that Drolefille was making women helpless children who can't protect themselves but it's okay for men to be helpless children who can't control themselves. Women need to be the safe adults here, not the men. Ahhhhhhh...this takes me back to my very first post in this thread. It doesn't need to be about "helpless women" or "boys will be boys." Those are extremes on each end of the scale. Instead, the scale should be balanced where both men and women are conscious and accountable.

/redundant

What you said.