you don't think you're producing identification once you're stopped because of a moving violation?

this.


and this.

do those permanent residents have valid id?

they'll accept it. unless you can get a driver's license anywhere in this country as an illegal alien.

I don't know if I believe you can't get an AZ license as an illegal immigrant. There were some suspicious looking people getting licenses when I got mine. All I had to do was show my MD license (which incidentally gave out licenses to illegal immigrants) and a copy of my insurance card to get my AZ license. I didn't even have to show proof of my current address. Crazy! AND, my license doesn't expire until 2040!

You can. Multiple jurisdictions have decided that licensing all drivers is preferable to illegal immigrants driving without licenses. It varies based on where they're from, that's why AZ won't accept all licenses as proof of citizenship.

I'm talking about people from other states going to protest in AZ against 1070 then driving their fat happy asses home. AFAIK the majority of people of AZ still support this bill and they are the ones that will have to live with it, not you in Dallas or me in EP or some dude in NJ.

I'm going to disagree with you on the bolded. There is a reason why more immigrants and smugglers choose to go through the treacherous Arizona smuggling route as opposed to crossing the "easier" California or Texas borders. Arizona does the catch and release. You cross in TX you are looking at 3 weeks to 3 months in jail THEN deported.

Where did I say that?

And the operative phrase here is "moving violation." I won't produce identification because I'm "too black."

That's not what you said, though. You essentially said they can't support the bill because they don't see the effects of illegal immigration firsthand. I was just making a point that California does, indeed, see the effects of it.

have you read the hb2162?

I had not seen that. Thanks for letting me know about it.

The question still remains, though: How do you determine someone's status by means other than race? I saw style of dress and language spoken posted earlier. I don't think that's acceptable.

lack of valid id, inability or unwillingness to communicate in english. whether or not they're in some sort of identification database.

you're not making a determination based on race. you're asking a question to the proper authorities in order to make an informed determination.

No, you investigate based on a "reasonable suspicion" of illegal status. That's the questionable bit.

so what i've listed couldn't fall under reasonable suspicion?

particularly the lack of valid id and inability or unwillingness to communicate in english?

in addition, they're not required to verify the status on all arrests.

"a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable"

No, what I'M SAYING is they should butt out of Arizona's politics and if the people of Arizona want and support this bill let them pass it.

And by the way, Arizona has it a lot worse than California in regards to crime associated with smuggling.