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-   -   Second Presidential Debate (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=100195)

AGDee 10-08-2008 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1728654)
^^^ Thanks for the info. I haven't had a chance (time?!) to delve into it all too deeply yet, so I appreciate any education I can get.
It doesn't help that it ended up being 450 pages! You almost wonder if they make it that big to discourage people from seeing what's really in there.

ThetaDancer 10-08-2008 02:21 PM
www.fivethirtyeight.com is a site I really like, and I thought they had a pretty good post-debate post, plus some post-debate polls and recalculated projections, with several links that might be of interest.

MysticCat 10-08-2008 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThetaDancer (Post 1728659)
www.fivethirtyeight.com is a site I really like, and I thought they had a pretty good post-debate post, plus some post-debate polls and recalculated projections, with several links that might be of interest.
I like that site as well. Nate Silver did an impressive job predicting what would happen in the Democratic primaries in Indiana and NC.

KSigkid 10-08-2008 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1728661)
I like that site as well. Nate Silver did an impressive job predicting what would happen in the Democratic primaries in Indiana and NC.
Slightly off-topic, but Nate is also one of the best baseball statistical analysts out there. I first became aware of his work on Baseball Prospectus (www.baseballprospectus.com). If you're a baseball fan, you should definitely look up some of his stuff.

/end hijack

MysticCat 10-08-2008 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSigkid (Post 1728662)
Slightly off-topic, but Nate is also one of the best baseball statistical analysts out there. I first became aware of his work on Baseball Prospectus (www.baseballprospectus.com). If you're a baseball fan, you should definitely look up some of his stuff.

/end hijack
Not really off topic. His analysis at FiveThirtyEight.com is, as I understand it, based on his baseball statistical work.

KSig RC 10-08-2008 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1728664)
Not really off topic. His analysis at FiveThirtyEight.com is, as I understand it, based on his baseball statistical work.
The best part of Silver's work is that his baseball work and political work are actually pretty different - conceptually, they're based on similarity modeling, but the implementation is pretty different (and actually, his political models are genius because they use pretty simple assumptions to come up with a sophisticated model, whereas PECOTA is a massive sprawling awesome mess).

The second best part? The Burrito Bracket. I'm a massive fan of the dude's work - very impressive, and I'm very jealous I didn't think of the 538 method first, even while upset that he hasn't written nearly as much on BP as a result. Definitely better than any of the MSM polling sources.

TonyB06 10-08-2008 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThetaDancer (Post 1728659)
www.fivethirtyeight.com is a site I really like, and I thought they had a pretty good post-debate post, plus some post-debate polls and recalculated projections, with several links that might be of interest.
...this is pretty much the first political site I read daily.

Senusret I 10-08-2008 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeslieAGD (Post 1728615)
Except for a few questions, last night's debate was a snore for me. If I had to listen to McCain say "my friends," "I know how to fix it," or hear either candidate say "look here" one more time, I would have been ready to stab myself in the eye.
Every time Barack said "LOOK" I thought it was my dad or Principal about to give me a stern lecture. :(

lyrelyre 10-08-2008 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGDee (Post 1728532)
Personally, I put it in the same category as Education. Education is also a service that utilizes commodities to provide the service. We have a right to equal opportunity to education and it is my personal belief that health care should be treated the same way.
It's worth noting that education is not a fundamental right. It is true that access to existing public education is protected. However, the Supreme Court has specifically stated that there is no fundamental right to education.

UGAalum94 10-08-2008 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSig RC (Post 1728503)
I agree completely, this is exactly (one of) the key problem(s) with modern health insurance, and it's a bastardization of market conditions that has led to awful unintended consequences.

However, the solution to fixing this issue isn't necessarily nationalization or "forcing" insurance on people. Indeed, this sort of nationalization would seem to play exactly into the current problems with health insurance - namely, that the insurance companies themselves are the policymaker (pun completely intended).

If you want affordable medical care for every American, this is a completely different issue than nationwide health insurance for every American. The entire concept of insurance is pooling risk - simply handing out insurance without additional intake in premiums would be a disaster, and would force the insurance companies themselves to round up more income. Guess how that would happen?

Again - health insurance is a commodity. Medical care is, as well, to a certain extent - but one that can be subsidized by the State. Why do we focus on the former instead of the latter? Why allow the insurance cabal to affect the cost of the latter, period, in a misguided attempt to "have it both ways" and prop up a crappy system?

For the record, neither candidate's plan seems to address this fundamental disconnect in a substantive fashion.
Yep.

UGAalum94 10-08-2008 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senusret I (Post 1728677)
Every time Barack said "LOOK" I thought it was my dad or Principal about to give me a stern lecture. :(
I'm used to it that way too as kind of a you're screwing-up-and-not-paying-attention-kind of sentence starter. Last night, I admit I was letting my attention drift frequently, so it was appropriate.

UGAalum94 10-08-2008 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyrelyre (Post 1728754)
It's worth noting that education is not a fundamental right. It is true that access to existing public education is protected. However, the Supreme Court has specifically stated that there is no fundamental right to education.
Yeah, and some times it's interesting to me that things have gone this way.

We accept a public educational system that most of us regard as less than awesome for the majority of citizens and assume it's a legitimate governmental service, but most of us really don't want a system of public doctors and hospitals paid for like schools are paid for.

Maybe if companies hadn't started offering health insurance benefits as a way to attract workers when they essentially had salary freezes, we would have simply developed a more extensive system of public clinics and hospitals supported though taxes and more moderate billing. ETA: such a system would probably be about as uneven in quality as the public schools are, but it's interesting to think about how these two areas diverged.

MysticCat 10-08-2008 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyrelyre (Post 1728754)
It's worth noting that education is not a fundamental right. It is true that access to existing public education is protected. However, the Supreme Court has specifically stated that there is no fundamental right to education.
The Supreme Court has said that there is no fundamental right to education under the federal constitution. However, I believe you'll find that many if not most state constitutions do make education, and a free education at that, a right.

BetteDavisEyes 10-08-2008 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphagamzetagam (Post 1728594)
Has anyone else noticed that Obama seems to have aged a little bit through this campaign? If he's elected, his hair is going to be completely white after his first term.

I discussed this with a friend who teaches Political Science at the local Community College and it was his theory that this was likely done on purpose by his "people" because an older man (though not as old as McCain) projects confidence, experience, and it's harder for some voters to vote for someone that looks as young as they do. He insists that Clinton did the same thing when he was first running for office b/c of his age.

Me personally? I think my friend has a valid point but I also think that the stress of taking on such a massive job like running for office takes its toll.

agzg 10-08-2008 10:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes (Post 1728848)
Me personally? I think my friend has a valid point but I also think that the stress of taking on such a massive job like running for office takes its toll.
I'd agree. I don't think there's ever been a President (in recent history - obviously I can't vouch for Washington et al because they wore wigs) who has not aged significantly during his Presidency, be it four years or eight.


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