Forget the juggling 5 kids and the campaign - if she can juggle the campaign AND plan a wedding as MOB - THAT is impressive.

Jalal Talabani is the current President of Iraq and a leading Kurdish politician.

Didn't really think it took that long to plan a shotgun wedding.

Well, we'll have to chalk it up to the prism you're watching it through then, because my impression of that "raising the white flag" bit was that it was so panned and rehearsed, she was obviously waiting to shuffle her cards and pull that one out. So I thought it fell completely flat. Biden showed not only knowledge but passion about foreign affairs issues. She clearly repeated what she'd been taught and stuck with McCain's platform.

I haven't read or heard anyone else saying she won points over Biden on foreign policy, but if you can supply some links (that aren't from Anne Coulter or someone of that ilk), I'd love to read or watch them.

Palin wasn't half bad, and probably better than most people (including myself) expected. Biden was a little too timid at the start, but got better towards the end.

I thought it would be a "do no harm" kind of night - both VP candidates have weaknesses, and the main thing was not to let those weaknesses hurt their respective campaigns. In that way, I think both accomplished their mission.

and the rehersal was clear in how she paused before said it like she had to remember to say it... :)

This debate should be used to teach school children about fallacies. Her rhetoric was almost a perfect example of red herring.

And then it should be used to teach about manners and research. "Hey can I call ya Joe" ain't the best manners.

And on the research front... the general in Afghanistan is McKiernan, not McClellan. Know your material and know it well, so you don't end up looking like a bozo.

On another note... I really felt for Biden when he was talking about being a single dad.

ETA: At least she brings some really funny material to SNL. I'm convinced that's the reason Bush was elected a second term.

Thanks!
I wasn't sure if she misspoke or what. That explains it.

Actually they're supposedly thinking next summer according to the baby daddy's mom. Wonder if she's hoping for a white house wedding:p

They're getting married *AFTER* the baby's born?

At least one previously undecided in CNN's Ohio panel said the debate convinced her to commit to Obama, while another said it convinced her to vote for McCain. FWIW.

LOL. My wife and I did the same thing.

She accomplished her goal, which was not to repeat the disasters that were her interviews. Anything beyond that was a win for her, even if most watchers (per the polls, at least) thought that Biden did a better job than she did and that Biden presented a better case than she did.

I switched among all the news channels post debate and they all (including democrats) said that she did a pretty good job and that her likeability factor was higher than Biden's.

As an aside, I don't get all the vitriol towards her, it's almost like a psychosis. She isn't a boogie (wo)man who's hiding in the closet;) I don't feel hatred or fear about any of them. The people who truly wield the power are the legislators, and more frequently these days, the judiciary. The president, and certainly, the vice president can only wield any influence if they have a clear mandate from the people seen in a landslide vote. As much as people say Bush pushed us into war, the Congress voted to allow it and has allowed the budgetary appropriations to continue it. (mind you, I'm no Bush fan, I just find revisionist history interesting to watch unfold). Just like the people who are saying that it is the deregulation of the past 8 years that have brought us to this economic crisis, when it is very easy to find that factually the deregulation of Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac began in 1999 (and the pressure for it began before that). All you need is google or nexis and the facts are right there in print.

It reminds me of the book 1984 - newspeak.

As for fact checking the vp debate - both fudged on the facts, both had flubs in terms of mis-speaking, but, we all view the performances based upon our predisposed biases.

off the soapbox.

See, I didn't think Biden did all THAT well in the debate. I might have had too high an expectation for him, in that he's done this many times before. I thought he was much better during the second half of the debate (especially since they were talking about foreign policy, right in his wheelhouse), but I wasn't sure he did that much to advance the ticket.

If anything, I'd say that he did his best service to his campaign by not flying off the handle, so to speak, and by being fairly measured in his responses. It wasn't a bad performance, by any means, but I don't think it was his best performance.

One point, and this may just be the law nerd in me - if I were him, I wouldn't mention the Bork thing all that often. I think that the Bork nomination fight is a sore spot for Republicans, and that if he and Obama were to win, there could be some residual issues with their first Court nominee (especially if it's someone remotely controversial like Dean Koh, as opposed to a safer pick like Dean Kagan or Judge Sotomayor).

I missed the middle of the debate. I heard the first part on the car radio, got home and missed part while getting kids to bed, and then watched the last third or so.

I'd agree that the best thing he could do was not fly off the handle or say anything too stupid, and not say anything that could be construed as condescending, and I think from what I saw he pulled all that off well. While Sarah Palin's task was to do better than her interviews, Biden's task was not to blow it and he didn't. They both accomplished what they needed to accomplish.

We were watching it on CNN with their dial-meters for the panel/focus group in Ohio -- certainly an unscientific and limited group for statistical purposes. But it seemed that they typically reacted more favorably to Biden than Palin -- for her, the lines stayed flat quite a good portion of the time, particularly toward the end, while he was getting mostly positive reactions.

I don't know - maybe it was just me, but when Obama picked Biden my response was "WTF? That guy doesn't even like him!" Which, in turn, caused me to not like Biden and to scratch my head at Obama.

Which Sarah touched on last night. However, I'd have to say that his likeability definitely rose (in my mind) last night. I haven't really been exposed to him that much.

I mean, not to take it down to the Bush v. Kerry level, but I'll go there. I'd almost rather have a beer with Joe Biden. At least he's not going to say stuff like "OMG I'm a Hockey Mom!"

Well, Kennedy and Johnson didn't like each other either. Nothing new there.

For the flip side, my mother-in-law, a yellow dog Democrat if ever there was one and a Hillary supporter, was having a hard time warming up to Obama, mostly because of his relative lack of experience. Him picking Biden pulled her on board quickly, because she does like Biden.

Good point.

I think I got Biden's and McCain's personalities mixed up when I didn't like him, FWIW. Nice to see Biden actually has a soul.

We had on the CNN feed at the law school; I was watching that for about a half hour before I headed for home. I listened while I was driving home, and then started watching at home again (on NBC).

Since you both watched and listened, I wanted to get your take on something. I found that Palin came off much better when I was listening to the debate, rather than watching it, while Biden was better on TV than on radio. Did you find something similar, i.e. a difference in their success depending on TV versus radio?

I may be a bit off, but that was my impression.

Hmm. We thought that Biden didn't look at the camera enough -- he seemed to be talking to Gwen Ifell while Palin seemed to be talking to "us." He got better about that at the end, but my wife kept saying "look at the camera, Joe!"

I thought they both came off better on the radio. I dunno, though.

Hmmm.....
After this debate I think that I would rather have a beer with Gov. Palin. To me, Sen. Biden comes across as a person who is book smart but not necessarily someone I could relate to on any beer chugging level. Gov. Palin on the other hand seems like she would be someone who I could have a beer with and talk kids, life, and she would be fun. Now, being a lightweight, it would only take me half a beer before I started giving her unsolicited advice like 1. stop dropping your g's when you speak!! 2. stop winking, it's creepy. 3. enunciate!! enunciate!! enunciate!!! 4. It is not diplomatic to drop formalities like titles. 5. come up with some new material!! At this point she would probably have her secret service detail take me away, in which case my evening would be ruined. So I should probably share my beer with Biden instead........:D

Her calling Biden "Joe" was the exact same thing as Obama calling McCain "John" last week while McCain said "Senator Obama" or "the senator" the whole time. In fact it wouldn't entirely surprise me if that had something to do with why they had Palin call him "Joe".

And was I the only one who thought it was awkward when Biden would say "That's the difference between Sarah Palin and Joe Biden and Barack Obama and John McCain."? He needed to find a connector other than "and" to replace some of those ands. It made it sound like he was saying that none of them agrees with anyone else in the race.

You could hear on her live mic when they came on stage that Palin greeted Biden by saying: "Nice to meet you" and "Can I call you Joe?" Interesting point about why she might have been calling him Joe, although I chalked it up more to the Hockey Mom persona she wants to foster.

I dunno, maybe it's just me, and maybe I'm a little old fashioned when it comes to things like this. I see a difference in Obama calling McCain "John," since they already know each other and are collegues in the Senate and peers, as it were. It sounds a little different to me coming from Palin, when they don't already know each other (as evidenced by the fact that they both commented that it was nice to finally meet) and don't have that pre-existing, collegial relationship.

But yeah, Biden needed to come up with a different way to refer to everybody.

And WarEagle07 . . . priceless!

See, and the cynical side of me thinks she was just getting set up to pull out some of those one-liners that had been prepared for her that she felt she really needed to get in there -- "Say it ain't so, Joe!", etc.

I agree.

I disagree. I think there were times when Biden was throwing her a rope and she was just too clueless to pick up on it. She could have done much better but she did not.

Like when?

Through the whole thing. It seemed to me especially when she did not answer the question, Biden would go back to answer the question in a way that she could effectively offer her rebuttal, but she said, 'Hey, I'm going to go back and talk about what I know - ENERGY!!' And to me, she did not do that too well.:rolleyes:

And her whole 'folksy' talk, that got real old quick. Once or twice, okay, I could stand it, but not all the way through!!!! The VP may not do much, but it is still an important position. She just did not come off too polished, imo.

The Ultimate bridge to Nowhere
 

The Corpse isn't even COLD yet....lol

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/pol....explain.obama

DAMN!!

scroll down and watch the video

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1..._n_131655.html


and which one of these guys is Joe 6 Pack?

http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/200...phillippe6.jpg



OOOOrrrrrr


http://www.relationshipcontract.net/...uy-328x196.jpg

LOL. That guy's shirt is sick.

Yep, we must be on the same email distribution list.

I thought the same. In fact, I thought Tina Fey was actually speaking the entire debate.

I actually agree. I also think that Palin was giving more of a pep talk than actually debating. Biden was making an effort to debate, but his energy and humor were noticeably lacking, presumably because he was trying not to say something stupid.

Ehhhhhhh...no.

I'd rather have a beer with Palin. I'd rather not vote for the person I'd like to have a beer with. I want to vote for someone who can present themselves as poised and sophisticated under all circumstances.

Biden's big gaffe of the night was on the question about Cheney and the role of the vice-president. He said:
Everyone should understand an absolutely false statement about the Constitution from a lawyer who claims to be a Constitutional law expert? Article I is in fact the only place in the Constitution where the role of the vice-president is mentioned, the only problem here is that Article I is what lays out the role and structure of THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH and establishes only that the VP is the President of the Senate but has no vote except in the case of a tie and establishes that there can be a President pro tempore who is to preside over the Senate when the vice-president is absent.

For further information (yes I know "Ace of Spades HQ" is a right-wing libertarian blog and I don't normally read it either, but it lays this particular point out very well) see http://minx.cc/?post=274758

Yeah, obviously Biden should have mentioned Article II in a perfect world, but in all honesty, no one on Earth gives a shit about this mistake.

We can pick apart minutiae all day, but that doesn't mean it's actually relevant to either campaign - there's just no way McCain can use this "gaffe" in any substantive fashion. It's just not a big deal.

at least he knows what the VP does....


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3113/...141364.jpg?v=0

Dude - I'll be in DC this spring, I'll buy ya a beer. If for no other reason than to prove that I do indeed like you, plus it'd be hilarious.

But the whole point of the Article I/II misstep is that Biden did not, in fact, indicate that he knew what the VP did. However, it's an esoteric distinction, so no one on Earth would/should care. It's just irony, really.