I call it strutting too! I was made in Louisiana so maybe so?

I am not greek but I have tons of greek friends. One thing that bothers me is strolling at a non-greek party. Its like how do you expect "townies" to not break the stroll line if they dont know what the h e double hockey sticks you're doing. Then they start fighting.....its just stupid to me.

I agree and even if they know what you're doing, should they always care? I don't even care most of the time and I've broken many a stroll.

The worst is years ago when I went to NPHC parties in areas with Bloods and Crips. The Bloods and Crips looked like Sigmas and Kappas. They did handsigns, "strolls," and so forth. Many fights began because people confused NPHCers with gang members or locals, etc.

^^^Along with that what's with folks strolling smack dab in the center of the dance floor disturbing folks' dancing area...if the dance floor is full just go around the people, I hate dancing and getting pushed out the way or have my toes stepped on, and people wonder how fights start.

Wow!!!:eek:

CTHU @ the gangs looking like fraternities. You're right though - if you don't know what you're looking at, you might get it confused.

off topic...
i've never seen bloods or crips stroll - but then again i dont think i've ever KNOWN that i was around them (but i have been). wow!!!!

I'm sure they wouldn't call it a "stroll" or maybe they would. :confused:

I assume the Crips were Crip walking in a straight line. But they were throwing their hand sign up and wearing blue. I didn't know they were Crips until there was gang warfare outside of the party later on. :rolleyes:

This is messed up but it's not our problem. This is the very reason that some non-greeks associate our traditions with that of gangs but we shouldn't stop doing what we do because of them. Since the beginning, many clubs and organizations (greek and otherwise) have had handsigns, colors, and other traditions that these gangs are now copying.

Um, BGLO hand signs are relatively new (compared to our beginnings--there were no handsigns (or calls) when I was initiated) In fact it would be a safe bet to say that gangs had them first.

I'm not talking about BGLO's but rather American clubs/teams/organizations in general since the beginning of the fraternal movement. The bottom line is that the dynamics that go along with forming organizations and creating unity among members can be found in any organization, negative or positive. Even the KKK is a fraternity that shares similarities with other (more positive) fraternal organizations.

But your assertion is that gangs are doing the copying. Using your argument above you would have to include gangs from their beginnings also. Did you see the movie Gangs of New York? And of course you know about the Mafia.

Again though my point is you can't generalize--gangs had handsigns and calls before BGLOs. And some of the BGLO signs do resemble some gang signs.

It's actually everyone's problem.

You have to be familiar with every setting that you're in. I've seen locals and gang members fight BGLO members over strolls and other things. I know of BGLO members who have gotten shot because they were confused for someone else. It's not worth fighting or being killed over--wasn't worth it when I was an undergrad and certainly isn't worth it now. If the Bloods and Crips or other nonBGLOers have their thing, the BGLO members need to be aware of it and get out the way if necessary.


If BGLO members care so much to make a change somewhere, they should get involved with gang-oriented or other community service starting the following Monday.

I actually wasn't too sure of what her assertion was.

I thought she was just another BGLOer who (in a nice way :)) thought the sun should rise and shine on our behinds regardless of where we show up. Age and experience reminds us that many people (BGLOers and nonBGLOers) don't give a good darn about some of "our" often instrusive customs.

^^^This must be repeated! Living in Chicago which has a long history with gangs and has the second most chronic Gang Problem (LA is number 1), I knew I would have to be weary of where I wear my letter and where I throw up my sign (I think calls are very easy to designate a setting).

I really don't wear my letters or colors anywhere other than on campus, being that I have to travel through the gang dominated hoods and many gangs moving into my neighborhood...I remember waiting for the bus in this neighborhood called Oakland here on the South Side, wearing my letters and colors (I was a happy neo), and having dudes come up to me asking 'What you be about?', I'm learned on gangs but dunno why if didn't hit me that hey 'I shouldn't be wearing this stuff'.

I think we need to let folks know who may not be familiar with the gang lifestyle or who think people are willing to differentiate from a gang/fraternity that we must use discretion with out insignia, I really don't like having out of town folks from NYC or FL come here wearing their para which can be confused for gang gear laughing or dismissing advice Chicago natives give of "please put something over that" or "don't be throwing up that stuff here!"

Hell, my folks are just registering the fact that it's not a college gang! :mad:


Some crossover gang examples:
Alphas' "Phi" sign=Blood's "neighborhood" sign
Sigma Lambda Upsilon's "Sigma Lambda" sign (index fingers connected to one another with thumbs sticking out=Blood's 'Avenue" sign
Black and Gold=Gang Colors
Brown and Gold=Gang Colors
Black and Blue=Gang Colors
Red & White=Gang Colors (in my old neighborhood which houses a lot of mini gangs)

I'm sticking to pins from here on out :cool:

TotallyWicked, thanks for sharing that info because there are times when experiencing something firsthand really drives the point home so lessons are learned.

I wouldn't have taken it so seriously if I hadn't seen it myself. Granted, I didn't live in or frequent gang infested neighborhoods. But, instead I know ex-gang members who are now in BGLOs and I've encountered gang tensions from locals at parties as previously mentioned.

What about the GLO's that came before us and other clubs/organizations? So by no means am I saying that BGLO's came up with these expressions. I think these things can be found among many different orgs/clubs in the U.S. and around the world. What about the Black community and the peace sign? What about the Black Panthers throwing up the Black fist? The point is that handsigns/symbols can be found among all kinds of clubs and organizations. The gangs copied from others and so did we...doesn't matter who did so first. I just hate it when people try to act like it's gangs that invented them and we copied from them directly because I know that isn't true...gangs didn't invent them and we didn't copy from them.

Okay, but according to your previous post, you were at an NPHC party. So are BGLO members not supposed to wear their colors and stroll at their own parties because of gang members that might be there? What members in gang infested areas should be examining is ways to make sure that gang members don't enter our parties. Having gang members at an NPHC party is not a good look and is a huge liability in regards to the safety of party goers.

Glad you have such first hand knowledge in this to be able to be so definitive in your statement.

And I don't get your analogies about the Black community and the peace sign and the Panthers and the fist

And that is when the fights begin, especially if the party is open to the general public.

well I think folks should do some research before trying to host a party in a gang infested neighborhood...couldn't hurt in the long run to avoid any major issues....even though I acknowledge fights can break out anywhere.

I surely did not get the impressions that the parties were purposely held in gang infested neighborhoods. The thing is public parties are intended to attract just that--the public. Especially if they are a fundraiser, which many are.

Let's not be naive about gangs--they do travel. And you may not even know that you are letting mambers into a party until it is too late. And very honestly a party of any kind, anywhere is a magnet for gang face-offs. Heck here a U of MN football player was killed attending a public club by a gang member in downtown Mpls for no real reason. We have teens killed at bustops because they were mistaken for rival gang members.

This is no joke. And if anyone thinks all that needs to be done is some research on venues and how to keep them out of the parties, then they are very naive, or they do not live in an area with gang problems.

Oh and guess what? Some gang members do go to college and join BGLOs.

The point is that many groups have had handsigns/symbols in and outside of the U.S. Gangs don't own that expression. You are giving those thugs way too much credit. They learned how to be organized by watching others.

And this needs to stop, fundraiser or not. Undergrads need to keep their parties on their campuses. The liability is just too risky these days. It's so bad now that one of the schools that my alumnae chapter advises only permits the students (with school ID's) to enter the campus parties now (NPHC parties included). Everyone else must be on a guest list to get in and must arrive before 12:00a.m. Oh and security must be provided.

If there is a party on my campus they normally do not check IDs, but it will be over by 12, so having a party on campus for most people (at my school) is a waste of time.

I am very much aware of gangs, I grew up in one of the largest gang areas in the Midwest...I know gangs do travel, I think it would be best to minimize the possibilities of gang fights if the venue were held somewhere not identified as a gang zone. Also, the average age that people leave gangs is 19, while former gang members join BGLO's, that shift in life (going to college, growing out of gangs, getting married, etc.), will detach them from gangs so that should not be a worry (It may be difficult for them, but for the most part this is how people leave gangs).

LOLZ. Unless you're talking Chicago, the Midwest is not exactly known for gangs.

Yup! South Side of Chicago! :cool:

Also, that's a dangerous assumption, there are other cities in the Midwest whose gang problems get downplayed, e.g. St. Louis, Gary, IN, Detroit, Cleveland, etc. Chicago is not the only one with a severe gang problem, and hopefully people don't look at Chicago as the sole representative for gang issues.

So, why didn't you just say that you grew up in Chicago? Chicago is about the only city in the midwest with a significant gang problem. Adding mileage to your agrument, in this case, doesn't add to the impact.

You edited as I was posting....

St. Louis, ok, I'll give you that - but I don't think Detroit is considered Midwest, and I don't think you can put Cleveland and Gary up there with Chicago and St. Louis.

Whoa, I never said they did own those expressions. What I have ascertained is that they had them before BGLOs did. But if you are going to use the term gangs then you have to include those that preceded the ones that you know of now. My point is gangs have existed for a very long time, which is why I again refer you to the movie Gangs of New York and to the Mafia.

Because I said it in an earlier post LOL :p Detroit is considered Midwest. I'm saying if L.A. is recognized for its gang problem, we don't use that as the sole representative for California, we are aware of places like Oakland and Compton; I feel if we recognize more Midwestern cities we can help aid in fixing the gang problem...

.....even though the mayor's solution to Chicago's problem is to push em to the suburbs....but that's an entirely different topic :cool:

When I was growing up in the Lou, we did not have a gang problem--I suspect they do now. And my relatives who were in gangs all lived in Chicago.

We even have a problem here in MN, but guess what? We have our fair share of Bloods, Crips, Disciples, etc., but we also have Asian and Latino gangs. And they are no joke.

Oh and Michigan is considered midwest in a lot of designations. And Gary--whew! Per capita I bet they would compare to Chi and the Lou.

I forgot to mention Wichita, KS which has seen a growth in gang population (mainly because of the army base), it actually is a big issue there but again we're only looking at one city as a model for the region.

But my point is that mentality has invaded college campuses. I have seen it first hand. And yes they basically traded one gang for another (in their minds) when joining a BGLO, thus the continued hazing.

I should tell you that I am an old head that has experienced a lot of life, probably before you were even born. And your solutions are not that simple.

I never said they would be simple solutions...but it's a start...I've experienced the 'college thugs' as some call em, and know of folks who have returned to their hometown after school and yet still found themselves in the same situation as when they left.

If someone is very into the gang lifestyle and they are seeking membership, I don't really think it is wise for the organization to give them a bid unless they have a real sit down and have an understanding before they undertake their Membership Intake, if you're just taking folks without knowing really where they are coming from then we can expect this behavior to continue...I feel this would help shake off the cobwebs they (those interested) have and the misperceptions they have of GLO's as "college gangs"

Maybe this is true for certain chapters but our organizations are national and most chapters have not been inspired by gang activity...not at all. I live and was initiated in an area where there is no known gang activity and yet the hazing still goes on and no one is thinking about a gang. The reasons for why hazing continues (especially among the fraternities) is much deeper and complex than this. The book "African-American Fraternities and Sororities: The Legacy and the Vision" offers some interesting ideas and insight into the Why's of hazing in BGLO's.

And yes I know that you are a seasoned NPHC member and that you have a great deal of knowledge/wisdom to share but I also know that when it comes to the hazing thing (as it is today), the newer heads are just more in touch than a lot of the old heads are. Some of us have been through it ourselves, observed it, been involved in it, so the why's are a bit more clear to us whether we agree with it or not.

I think the idea of BGLO's as gangs is only a thought in areas where there is gang activity because people are sensitive to the topic. I've never heard anyone say such a thing where I live.

Yea...I can say the same here in the "A". Since I am the neo on the board I rarely hear comments like this about our orgs...if I do it is usually from someone who has not clue what we stand for or aware of the impact D9's have in the community they live in. I tell them what my org (DST) has done past and present and they comments are few to none..

Actually Cleveland has a HUGE gang problem and is considered the Midwest.

I did a very thorough paper and presentation on gangs in college. It's not as talked about as gangs in LA, Chicago, Detroit, but it does exist and is pretty vapid.