i can agree with expelling those who lie, be it about gender/sex or anything else...it just seems it would be so hurtful to that man/woman who had already been stereotyped and had prejudices held against them for that decision. i mean, some of these people lose their jobs, spouses, children, everyone, just to be what they feel they should have been to start. i imagine it would hurt being rejected by the only group that accepted you! just goes to show, honesty is the best policy!

(sorry, im a softy at heart!)

hahaha, thought about that actually, after i made the post. who's to tell? we don't ask for medical history either and i mean, we don't exactly line women up and judge if they're really female, lol.

would you really? i mean, these...um, humans....have already gone through their process and proven themselves worthy of membership...they've (theoretically) been a member for awhile and (again, theoretically) been upstanding members who hold the ideals of DST to heart...you wouldn't even consider it?

edit: i'm speaking of a transgender woman, not a man who had a sex-change in this case. why should someone be faulted for something they can't control?

I was jokingly serious.

We would have lawsuits if we expelled those who obtained membership before our sex vs. gender policy was enacted.

But I don't foresee this being an issue..

ah. yeah, me neither. it's just one of those hypothetical things.

>?
 

I have always understood that the gender ideals was based on tradition. Now I don't want to sound trite but tradition is one thing that makes the fraternity or sorority. Now i agree also that everyone fits in somewhere but I don't think i could be very perceptive to transgender rushees just because its not in the rule books. Now technically that is discrimination but i really wonder how all that works? As long as people push the norms of society will we ever know what is truly acceptable. Even though i wouldn't approve of having a transgender brother as long as he held to the values of my organization id have to and want to call him brother.

No. There is no such thing as TRULY acceptable (or moral). It always has been and always will be based on a society's concept of normative versus deviant behavior.

yes lying on the application is an expellable offense. But my question was more about those who were initiated before there was such a clause specifying they had to have been born a female, or such a question asked on the application.

Interesting discussion, carry on.

We may get some lawsuits if we did a retroactive policy and expelled members as such.

Uh...ok....

Well the values i were intiated into says otherwise, and thats on a person by person basis i know, but according to my fraternal values which i live up to everyday says that there is a moral code of the way a man should act and conduct his self. So thats my story and i'm sticking to it. And I am sure you have values that you choose to live up to that are apart of your organization. I think thats what people forget about fraternities. Yes we have fun, but its seriously more than that. Otherwise what sets the Greek experience apart from the average everyday colleigate one!

Based on this society's moral code for men.

You may go to another society or to a subgroup within this society and your moral code isn't worth anything. That's why moral entrepeneurs have to remember that their standards aren't the TRUTH. It's just a subjective reality and others abiding by it doesn't make it the final word.

(I don't know why you're responding to my post like you disagree. Wasn't I agreeing with you and/or answering your rhetorical question in your first post?)

Nothing but group membership and guidelines.

It's more than just guidelines and group membership. I don't know how it is in NPHC, i hope its more and it was more to you than just that. Being Greek is way more than guidelines and group memberships. I hope that sounded more general than you meant it.

I was just about to ask that...:rolleyes:

Actually, it's not even group membership and guidelines. Depending on where you find your "average college student."

Are GLO members the only collegiate and noncollegiate people who can form sisterhood and brotherhood bonds and adhere to a "moral"/standards/protocol code higher than themselves? No.

A more general definition of "fraternal" lets us know that the bonds, networks, and guidelines that we often speak about have been found in many other places. Hence, GLOs aren't for everybody and many of those who don't join have been able to find a lot of the same benefits elsewhere.

Exactly!

this thread is from 2007. OLD NEWS.

Awwww, flashback to 2007's male "AKAs." I just read my last post and don't know what the hell I was typing about. But I'm sure it was important in 2007. :)

You realize you're bitching at people from 2007, right?

And LOL @ "female AKAs"

Oh. Goodie.

Students please observe the Ironicus Hypocritalus. It is characterized by unwittingly being that which it claims to despise. Key signs are multiple exclamation points, the use of the word "classy" and an insult in the same sentence* and an inability to differentiate between there, their and they're.

*use of the word classy without an insult may indicate another species. We will discuss this at another lecture.