^^^As is talking down to every single person as though only your views through your very precise prism can possibly be how things should be. I find your signature line the height of irony.

Take it as you will.

If you choose to see my consistent, but different, opinion voiced in a manner you perceive to be talking down, that's too bad. You don't have to agree. I thought I had already stated that.

finis

I will agree that the release figure method (RFM, which is what I am assuming is what you despise) can and often does encourage shallow membership selection, particularly with "popular" chapters. If Popular Pi has to cut half of the PNMs after the first round, often, the ones invited back will be pretty, and they may or may not be compatible with the sisters personality-wise. Face it, it's hard to know whether a PNM will fit after meeting her for 15 minutes (or conversely, to be sure enough that she won't fit to place her in half to be cut).

However, Popular Pi does have a choice as to what kind of PNMs they want to invite back. No one forces them to invite gorgeous blondes with tons of money. If they want to have a pledge class that fits their "souls and minds", their members can direct conversation with PNMs in the direction to determine if there is a match. If Popular Pis want to talk about celebrity gossip, what their fathers do for a living, and designer labels with PNMs, that is their prerogative and they'll get what they are looking for. Likewise, if a PNM wants a chapter compatible with her soul and mind, she can steer conversation too.

The RFM is designed to place as many PNMs as possible, which is what I am assuming you mean by "arranged marriages with PanHel playing the part of the parents." Having Popular Pi cut more PNMs after the first round means that more PNMs will return to Small Sigma for the second round. I see what you mean with your analogy, but as a former Rho Gamma, I would never encourage/force/trick a PNM into putting any chapter on her bid card that she would not accept a bid from.

I know that not all chapters are equivalent. I know that not every PNM could fit into every chapter. I had a PNM in my group who, after attending her three preference parties, told me that she was dropping out. I was totally fine with that. However, if I had a PNM who wanted to drop out after seeing her invites (ie. anytime before pref parties are over), I would try to convince her to stick it out in case her mind changes (there is nothing to lose by attending the next round), but I'd respect her choice whatever she decided.

You're absolutely right, young women ARE capable of making up their own minds. A Rho Gamma's job (and PHA's job) is not to make PNMs' decisions for them, but to encourage them to get more information (i.e. don't drop out early) before making a decision, and to make sure they understand the consequences of their decision. I am so glad that my Rho Gamma "spoon fed" me in encouraging me to attend preference after being crushed for being cut from a chapter that I wouldn't have fit in anyway. At some schools, if a PNM does something stupid, she may have seriously damaged her chances to go Greek, if that's what she still wants. What is wrong with some counsel? What's wrong with having someone to answer your questions? Also, some PNMs treat recruitment like a crisis, and there need to be people to handle that. Rho Gammas are also vital in large recruitments if for nothing other than administrative purposes.

I had a PNM in my group tell me that she was torn between my chapter and another chapter. Do you think she would have felt comfortable telling me that if she knew my affiliation?

^^^Wow, OUTSTANDING post, violet!

Be a sorority member at a campus with 1000 girls going through rush.

Then come back and tell us how you feel.

(For those who are unaware, DGTess's school at present day has approximately 90 women go through rush. I'm guessing the number was lower in the 1970s.)

IMO, all the more reason to prohibit rush until Spring semester, when the rushee has had a chance to see the chapters in action (classes, homecoming, football, extracurricular activities) and meet many of the sisters. By then she has a much better idea of which houses are closest in general culture to her temperament, and can choose which to attend.

Why shouldn't she drop out early? There's next year if she changes her mind, and if she regrets the decision, well, it was her decision.

We differ there. I've always hated being spoon fed.

As I said, we all live with bad decisions. It's her decision.
Administration is different. Nor should a woman have to hide her affiliation to help with administration.

No. I would have expected her to find someone from another chapter to speak with. There is more than one woman in this role, is there not?

And if there is only one, well, someone on one of the recruitment threads likened rush to job interviews. To me, that's yet another reason not to hide affiliation. You don't always get to talk to the person you want to; sometimes you have to talk to the person in the role.

I understand Panhellenic's interest is to have as many women as possible in each chapter. They want to ensure economic viability for a chapter, and garner as much in dues as possible. They believe each chapter should be equally strong. I disagree.

I also think deferred rush with no hiding affiliations is better at doing away with perceptions of "more popular" houses. Once a woman has had a chance to see the houses and how its sisters relate, she will select the one right for her, not the one someone else sees as popular.

Of course, that's a concept I've never understood. How can a woman who comes to campus and rushes the first week, before classes start, possibly know which ones are considered "popular"?

Now I'll grant there's a lot I don't know about big rush. I do know enough that I have no interest in learning more. What I have seen, in the times I've been advisor to chapters, is enough to make me stay away from rush forever.

Why should I base my opinion on someone else's experiences? I've stated my opinions. I've stated what I believe. No one else has to believe it, nor need anyone else agree.

FWIW, I have no clue how many ever went through Rush, because we didn't have to report. That's changed now, even at my school. I believe that has lent a "mother may I" system that I have no interest in perpetuating. I was a student assistant to the Dean of Women, to the Dean of Men, and to the Dean of Student Life during my undergraduate career; Greek life came under their purview. There was no greek life office. I don't apologize for that; it was what it was.

Yes, I expect administratively, 1000 women is difficult to deal with. I can see other ways to handle the issue. Perhaps others can't; that's not my issue.

Well of course, it's the PNM's decision! Like I said before, they ARE adults, and they are capable of making their own decisions!

Say a PNM comes up to you and says she's dropping out after being dissatisfied with her schedule. I gather you'd be like,"Ok". I would tell the PNM that she has nothing to lose because she might like a chapter that she was only lukewarm about before, etc etc. to give her reasons to stick it out, but of course in no way force her. It's just information. If someone can warn you about making a [potentially] bad decision, you'd appreciate it, right?

I'd liken it to someone telling a teenager to use a condom. You could "let them live with the consequences" without saying a word and let them maybe get pregnant or an STD, or you can explain why using a condom is a good idea. No one can force the teen to use a condom, but information never hurt anyone. If the teen thought that nothing bad could happen while having unprotected sex, then the warning was definitely worth it if they decide to use the condom.

(Disclaimer: I am not implying that dropping out thus potentially ruining one's chances of going Greek and unplanned pregnancy/STD are of equal negativity, but I just wanted to illustrate the point that information never hurt anyone.)

Also, about hiding affiliation, read Honeychile's retro recruitment thread and tell me it was a good thing that her Rho Chi's affiliation was out in the open. Honeychile felt pressured to keep returning to her Rho Chi's chapter, because she didn't want to cut her Rho Chi's chapter in front of her. It made Honeychile resentful. Ok, I get it, "It was her decision, blah blah blah," but why put a PNM in an unnecessarily uncomfortable position?

For what it's worth, I went to Clarion (which means my rush was a lot like yours) and I'm the biggest deferred rush cheerleader on this whole damn board. I don't think women should join their first semester either; however, I also don't agree with not looking at all the chapters in a more formalized environment at least once. It fosters closed-mindedness and contributes to the Greek system not being unified. With Greeks under fire at so many colleges nowadays, we have to find a common bond - hang together, or all hang separately. Plus, just because you love Suzie and Bobbi from XYZ, they might be the exceptions to the rule.

I went through as a sophomore and I had a pretty good idea which group I liked - however, I'd seen enough girls be disappointed in rush that I wasn't about to put all my eggs in one basket. I'd heard all the reps and stories and gotten to know women from all the sororities, but I'm glad that I went everywhere I could during rush. I learned things that I wouldn't have learned otherwise (i.e., XYZ was too gung-ho for me and ABC was nice but I didn't feel comfortable there). It meant I could write ASA at the top of my bid card and KNOW that was where I wanted to be.

We had girls who didn't go through rush at all and they were more likely to have "what if" issues whenever things got tough in the chapter.

If you still call yourself a sorority alumna, and you believe the current system of rush is harming your sorority on either a local or a national level, which it sounds like you do, then yes it is very much your issue, and I'd like to hear what you think would be a better way for those schools to run rush.

What's not my issue is that others can't see other ways to handle rush. Status quo is always easier.

Other ways?

Look at the fraternity systems.
Only informal rush. Bids when the sisterhood feels ready.
Get Panhellenic out of rush, or use them as administrators.
Postpone rush until spring semester, when women have become familiar with campus and the various houses.
Look at sororities that don't participate in formal rush. Select some of their methods - application, grades, etc.

Most likely ome combination of these. There are hundreds of ideas, some of which would work on some campuses but not on others.

Actually, there have been several threads on here about the 4 different styles of rush, and NPC recommends that if an old-style formal rush isn't working for your campus, to change it to one of the three more relaxed styles. My campus just did this. There are also MANY schools that have deferred rush.

Only informal rush sounds good in theory, but at some point you have to get a pledge class together, unless of course, you just want to give them their pins and initiate them. You can have a second class, but like I said, at some point it has to become a group. Plus, the other thing about all informal that can really blow is that if there's no Panhellenic scheduling, too often the sororities have their parties on the same day at the same time. Maybe a girl would like to check out all the groups, but she can't because of time constraints, so she's forced into choosing before she even has a chance to meet the members. Our school did this (and first semester freshmen were allowed to rush at the time). It was horrible.

No one has ever said on here that there's only one way to do rush - anyone who is on GC for more than 5 minutes knows that's not the case. What is prompting the negative remarks is your attitude toward any sort of Panhellenic presence. Maybe at CMU everyone in sororities was happy and got along and you all loved each other and didn't really need Panhel for everyone to play fair, but it ISN'T that way everywhere. Just because I do not need snow boots in Florida doesn't mean the girl in Vermont doesn't need them either.

LOL. Great analogy.

Mine was in alpha phi! we found her out earlier on then we were supposed to because one of the girls saw her out at a frat party with some of her sisters

I had an AXO and a KD.

The AXO was off campus first semester when we started our rush meetings, but I could totally tell when I met her.

The KD couldn't have been any other house - she seemed like she would only fit into KD or Phi Mu (the two houses on my campus are really similar) and I knew she wasn't a Phi Mu because I knew everyone in the house when I went through rush.

Mine was an Alpha Xi Delta. She was so sweet. I had no clue what chapter she belonged to until the end. She was definitely very impartial through the whole rush.

I had two, actually. One Kappa and one Chi-O.

Mine was a Tri-Delta and a doll--I loved her. I didn't know what her affiliation was during rush, and don't remember spending much energy trying to figure it out. (Long time ago, though.) Anyway, Tri-Delta was one of the few houses that I didn't enjoy--strong house but I just didn't click with any of the actives I happened to be paired up with. I remember going on and on to her about how much I didn't like that house. She never flinched and was a great counselor. I was mortified Bid Day morning when she had on her letters!!! :eek: I would have loved to have been her sister--just goes to show that there are all types in all houses and rush impressions aren't always right! She was an absolute class act and didn't hold it against me at all, in fact, I went to her wedding 4 months later!!:)

I had one and she was a Tri-Delta.

I had a DG who I could of swore was a Theta and a Phi Mu who I thought was a delta zeta and she is now my big!:)

Mine was a Pi Phi, and I was the only one in the group who guessed right. And then she ended up being my big sis.

Mine was in ZTA. I remember she was real nice, but she def pushed ZTA, everytime she would check in she would be like where did you go today...did you like ZTA??? So I totally knew what house she was from...oh so many years ago, I was a young Lass...

I didn't have a Rho Gamma of my own but when I was a Rho Gamma, the first year I was partnered with a Sigma and all the PNMs thought I was a Sigma and they thought she was an ASA.

The second year I was not partnered but all the PNMs thought I was a Sigma again. They didn't know me as well though because I didn't do the hands-on part of having a group like the year before.

One of my best friends in college, who went through formal twice, had a DZ the first time and a DG the second. She correctly guessed the DG's affiliation, but thought the DZ was a ZTA. She thought both girls were really supportive Rho Chis. I met the DG a few times and she seemed really nice.

We only started doing formal recruitment with Gamma Phi in fall 2007. I'm a charter member, so my experience of joining was way different. I'm not entirely sure how it's done now (even though I'm still an active!) just because I'm not on that side of it. I think there is one Kappa PG and one Gamm Phi PG per group. There are two groups, and they just switch between the chapters.

The PNMs don't know which is which, but I think there's one of each.

Everyone thought my Rho Gamma was a Kappa but I correctly guessed that she was an AOPi...how'd I know? When I ranked AOPi #1 after 19 party I caught her smile really quick when she was entering the chapters into the computer. 2 of the girls from my rho gam group ended up joining AOPi too, haha. We had an AEPhi, AXiD, and a DZ in my walk around group too.

There were four in my group, but I only found out two because I didn't finish formal recruitment. They friended me on Facebook after recruitment, lol.

I really didn't try to guess any of them cause I really had no idea. The one Gamma Chi that I did think I might know, I was completely wrong about; I thought she was a Tri Delta but she was Kappa. The other one I found out about was an AEPhi.

I had 3 rho gams one from each chapter on campus. I guess them all right because their personalities all really matched their individual chapters.

I had one and she was a Tri-Sigma.