Off topic, but I would just like to point out that I have doubts that the person who this statement was attributed to ever actually SAID that. At the very least, this person's statement may have been misconstrued or taken seriously out of context. Again, that's IF it was said at all.

Just some food for thought.

I'm sure of it. Ton has a tendency of taking things out of context or skewing them to support his own agenda.

Maybe it was something like this.

"AI is something we do rarely and only for the person in special circumstances. Oh shoot, I didn't wave at Susan when I saw her this morning! Of all the silly things to do! I'll be more observant in the future."

Now my head hurts. That looks like one of those cryptograms from WW2.

Sheila, that looks about right.

Just out of curiosity--what would everyone's view be of an NPC sorority that did open its doors widely to AI? That publicly solicited women, made it an official initiative and said, "hey alumnae/older woman, come join us!"

I am not talking about just taking anyone who signs up and pay--there would still be exacting standards--but that they did encourage women to pursue membership with them rather than the other way around.

Then it becomes alumnae recruitment. Nothing wrong with that, but that sorority would have to offer substantially greater opportunities for alumnae involvement--- which means mandatory membership obligations across the board for alumnae members. I don't see that happening any time soon, as the collegiate chapters are where 90% of the resources and interests lie. Alumnae life is more of a support system.

I'll be honest--I don't think AI should be a common thing. I believe it's something that should be initiated by the sorority when a member knows a woman who would be an asset to that sorority, not something that an interested woman can "pursue" on her own. I realize that's probably not a popular view, but it's only my opinion.

Because I feel this way, I wouldn't view a sorority who had an open-door AI policy in a very good light.

Ditto!

Agreed!

I think, in general, most people are not comfortable with being approached by someone on their own recommendation. I liken it to this:
Would you hire someone with no references, and with no one to vouch for them? You MIGHT, but you're taking a huge gamble and you might live to regret your decision.

I'll vouch for that. When I'm hiring I usually ask my colleagues and friends to refer candidates to me. I'm more likely to look at those names more closely and bring them in for an interview.

This is very different than large-scale recruiting for---say--- an accounting firm like PWC who does a large cattle call of recent grads in the spring, wines them, dines them and has members of their team conduct interviews to select a "class" from among the hopefuls with the most potential.

I agree 100%. I believe that AI should be reserved for special people only in special circumstances.

Such a sorority would have to be run more like the NPHC groups where alumna membership is just as active as undergrad, and the process would likely be similar. Thus AI would still be highly selective, but would still be more common.

That would be the ideal, and we'd have a lot more involved members for the long haul. But I don't see it happening in the forseeable future.

My basic feeling on the matter is that, honestly, I am uncomfortable with a woman attempting to AI that even feels the need to "research" more than one organization, to say nothing of the women that acutally contact more than one.

"But OhSnap," one might say. "Without researching a few organizations, how will a woman know which sorority is right for her to attempt to AI into?"

That's my point exactly -- I would not be comfortable with a woman attempting to AI into AXO (not that AI is really common for my org, but let's use it as an example) unless she was approached by an AXO first. If this is the case and she feels in her heart that AXO is something she really wants to pursue, I would absolutely encourage her to research AXO a little more. However, if you don't have one specific organization -- with connections -- in mind when the idea of AI is presented to you, I don't think you should make an AI attempt.

My reasoning is this: too many women out there had failed recruitments in college. They can come on GC, post their stories, and pay lip service to the true purpose of AI until they're blue in the face, but the fact remains that many of these AIs are trying to use it as a "second chance" to "belong." A woman that is 28, 29, 30 or whatever and decides that she wants a chance to "do it all over again" shows a pretty strong lack of maturity -- I think most reasonable adult women move on from the college social scene after they graduate -- and that's going to be a pretty obvious personality flaw that will most likely come through to the alum group if a "shopping" PNAM makes contact.

Obviously, nothing I say really will make any difference to a PNAM dead-set on trying to get into a sorority. They're going to convince themselves that they're not that kind of PNAM, and go about their shopping. But to answer your question, yes, I think that contacting more than one group without any prior connection is dishonest, and can honestly make this kind of PNAM seem desperate and immature.

I find this very interesting--because do we not spend a majority of time as alumnae members of sororities, rather than collegiate? Just food for thought.

I've been to several Panhellenic Luncheons over the past few years and walked into rooms where there are by far more alumnae than collegians. There are organizations with more than 300 alumnae chapters to 125 collegiate chapters. I would argue that this drastically changes the focuses of those kinds of organizations--that they do have to be significantly more focused on alumnae needs and programming, than a group with only a few alumnae chapters.

Isn't that usually because it's an alumnae Panhellenic luncheon? :) I mean, I'm thinking of the one we have here where the alums who never do anything else all year turn out in full force because they can wear giant hats and drink martinis at noon.

You also have to look at how the alumnae chapters are set up. Maybe an org has 300 ACs vs 125 CCs - however, the average membership of the ACs is 10 and the average membership of the CCs is 75. Plus sometimes ACs can overlap for a myriad of reasons that I don't want to get into or my head will pop off.

Sometimes I think we'd have more alum involvement and stronger alum chapters if we made it more difficult to charter them - i.e., more like chartering a collegiate chapter. For a lot of groups, it's give us X number of names, send in your money, you're ready to go. Can you imagine chartering a collegiate chapter like that? I doubt very much that any of the NPHC graduate chapters operate that way either.

If we want alums to be as involved as collegians are, maybe we have to treat alum membership a little more like collegiate membership.

Sorry--didn't make it clear. I was speaking about panhellenic luncheons during Convention. The alumnae there are representing chapters, not necessarily locals, although I understand they are there too.

It is a funny situation, yes, because you are right. We do spend more time as alumnae than as collegians. BUT these organizations were founded for the benefit of collegiate women, and the alumnae phase of membership exists as a "remember the good times." Put it in the context of your university alumni association -- the programming of the university and the reason for the university's existence is the collegiate opportunity. The alumni arm is there to solicit money, update the alumni on what's new in the university and provide warm fuzzies to help alumni connect.

Oh, do you mean like a Panhellenic Luncheon during D Phi E convention?

Sorry, head fuzzy today.

Yes like that...but we do not have anywhere near 300 alumnae chapters!! I have been guests to 4 panhellenic luncheons during convention for Chi Omega, Delta Delta Delta, Gamma Phi Beta and Kappa Alpha Theta. When I've walked in, there are many more alumnae present than collegians and that is VASTLY different from my organization where you will see almost entirely collegiate members.

Heather, has this been in San Antonio? Come on sister-- you know Texas is its own rare animal when it comes to Greek Life! :)

Oh, OK. :)

But again, that's at a convention and I think that you have to consider that a lot of the alums have more disposable income than collegians to attend the conventions.

ETA, just for giggles I looked at our last convention attendance list and it's about 60% collegians, 40% alumnae.

Actually two were in San Antonio (Chi O and Theta) and two were in the DC area (Tri-Delta and Gamma Phi Beta) when I lived there. I almost made it to Tri-Delta twice (once in DC and once in San Antonio) but it was the week of our convention here so I could not go. Interestingly, Delta Gamma has also had their convention in San Antonio (but that was before I arrived here).

Maybe I'll start a thread about all about the great gifts you get when you go to those things!!

I think alums outnumber the collegians at conventions because the chapter budgets to pay to send a collegian to convention and alumnae can just plunk down cash.

I agree-- sweeeeet presents. I still have a violet plate that was the banquet gift at our convention in 2003.... Irony of ironies, I ended up moving 1.5 miles from that convention site a mere 2 years later!

Go back and do a tax return amendment for convention year, and itemize all of your convention $$ as moving expenses!;) :p

Great idea! LOL.

"No really, Mr. IRS accountant, that cocktail dress with the matching shoes was a tax-deductable moving expense!"

It's true.

The Fraternity pays for the collegiate chapter's official delegate (which is almost always the chapter president). If the chapter has money in the budget, they'll try to send one, maybe two more collegians. There are also collegians who pay out of pocket (or rather, pay out of mommy and daddy's pockets) to go to Convention as well.

Often chapter's Parents Clubs or House Corporations will pay for additional collegians to attend, as well.

I have a cookbook from Tri-Delta, a silver crescent box from GPhiB, a DPhiE paper holder from Chi O and "Bound by a Mighty Vow" and a bookmark from Theta. All very nice!

ETA--I guess I assumed that the alumnae at conventions were there as delegates of the alumnae chapters, and therefore, my comments about being alumnae focused versus collegiate focused.

Do you speak at all of those conventions or do you just attend as a guest?

Oh no--I am guest to their panhellenic lunches. Backing up--Some of the NPC groups hold a panhellenic lunch as part of their conventions and they issue invitations to the NPC delegations of the other 25 groups. Because I have lived in two areas where conventions are common, I get called by my org to go as our representative.

I go, meet with my hostess, get introduced as as a guest during the luncheon (along with the guests from the other sororities) and enjoy lunch etc. and then leave. Most of the groups have held some kind of program that is relevant to Greek life. Sometimes we've sung songs along with the little old lady playing the piano... all good fun!

I was a hostess at our convention in Chicago.......

For us it's probably about 50/50. Most of the collegiate chapters send 2 (or many more) women and the alumnae chapters hopsfully send 1 but we usually only get about half of our chapters sending someone. But then you have all of the alumnae volunteers and Foundation members (also alumnae).

Plus, the collegians who are coming from chapters where they are paying their own way (chapter paid for x members and x+3 came) they are probably only paying for part time and the luncheons are often what is skipped.