If a little white girl can point to instances where Blacks came and stole, raped, and killed to obtain all they have and reinforce their wealth and privalege with institutionalized racism, then by all means let her do it, and I won't say a word. A little white girl can't do it, TRUTHFULLY. This lil' sista did it, without having to lie.

PLEASE show us where the poem is wrong. Black pride is not wrong. Telling the truth is not wrong. And being brilliant is certainly not wrong.

Paradise's original post, before she edited it:

Thank You. Hurts my heart is all. If a white little girl wrote some white power poem, would we all be like 'you go girl!'? Don't think so. Just cause she's black doesn't make her a vissionary & a hero. I'm proud to be black but it's not by putting other races down while I uplift my own.

None of us said she was a visionary or hero, due to her Blackness. We were amazed at her ability to have such a great understanding of history (not myths) and express herself in such a poetic fashion.

I think you're hating, because she's gonna get a pony. :rolleyes:

Sistergreek as much as I would like to elaborate, I am not African-American. I am Black but I do not know what it's like being an African-American. Therefore my views won't totally 'gel' with my American Black brothers & sisters. I generally welcome a good discussion but please understand if I feel the vibe of this thread isn't 'opposition friendly' if you will. lol

Also I never said anything about her poem being wrong as artistic expression is objective so there is no wrong or right in this instance.

She's getting a pony? sweet

I agree, the young lady is talented. That fact can't be denied. Most of our dialogues at age 7 was limited to Barbie & Ken's lovelife drama. But I digress, again you are right no one said she was a hero, that was my view.

Paradise, if no one else empathizes with you, I for one do.

And you are absolutely correct. Discussions of this caliber is definately not "opposition friendly" on GC, particularly with certain individuals that I will not name here.

A word of wisdom: Should you decide to entertain a discussion in this thread, choose your opponents and your tools of debate wisely.

Carry on...

I understand.

But I want you to understand that there is nothing 'wrong' with what this lil' sista has written. There is also no sense in speculating what might happen if her white counterpart did something simiilar. There would be no need for that to happen, since there is no accurate comparison, in her ancestry, to what we experience in America.

I can see validity in everyones post. I give AlphaFrog props for standing by her opposing viewpoint. I dont agree. But I can see how she could have that view. She hasnt ever been a minority, so she may empathize but she wont fully understand.

Many AA dont and wont see the poem as racist simply because of the fundamental question--Can an AA be racist when we dont hold any real power? We can have racist beliefs but I dont think we can be racists simply because we dont sit in the driver's seat.

I dont think the poem is racist. I am very uncomfortable with the little girl's poem for a somewhat different reason. I am a parent. At seven, prodigy or not, her poem is regurgitation of viewpoints expressed to her by her parents. My thing is, at seven why is she being shoved into adulthood and dealing with full on adult issues. This is not the age where is black children speak out of line or dont know their place, they could get killed, like it was back during slavery. It is not a matter of safety for her to be aware of racial issues. I think to some degree her parents are doing her a disservice by no allowing her to fully enjoy her childhood.

I dont agree with Rain Man's view point of pull yourself up by your bootstraps and dont worry about it. But I respect his right to feel that way. AA are the only race that are not allowed to discuss the current ramifications of past injustices without being accused of pulling the 'race card'. No other race has a 'race card'.

Just my 2 cents.....

I have to disagree with you. I grew up in an extremely pro-Black home, and knew more about my history and culture than some college students when I was still a child. Now that I am an adult in the real world, I thank my father every day for the lessons he taught, the pride he instilled in me, and the reality that he showed me. I think sometimes that in our pursuit of "childhood and innocence" for a child, we neglect to show them how the world really is. That child grows in a bubble, and then they hit the real world and are shocked to find that its not all peaches-and-cream like they thought for the past 18 years. Because of my father's insistence that I learn about my history, my culture, and to be proud of who I was and where I came from, I wasn't deterred when White people in my undergrad days would tell me that I was only there because of affirmative action. I wasn't deterred when people looked at me funny in stores or followed me around. I wasn't deterred by any of the negative experiences I've had with ignorant people, because at the end of the day I know my worth. I know that I'm descended from kings and queens, inventors and businesspeople, people that struggled and sacrified and did what they had to do despite all the negativity in the world. And I thank my father for giving me all that.

/\/\/\/\/\
 

I think the whole purpose is to make people uncomfortable (regardless if you agree or disagree with her )because of the subject matter that is coming from a 7 year old. I said that from jump, but of course the "race card" was pulled because AlphaFrog was PO'd about the other thread and here is where we ended up.

In all seriousness, it is very apparent that even a discussion of race has now been deemed "racist". To even mention historical events/times are now considered being "racist". Am I the only person that is confused by this thought process of some posters?:confused:

COMPARISON
 

A young white girl's poem in support of WHITE NATIONALISM:

HITLER was a GREAT man...
Ni$$"ers" are ANIMALS...They should burn and die...
White people are the PURE and SUPERIOR race...
All Ni$$"er" lovers should be KILLED and ERASED off the face of the earth...

A young black girl's poem instilling BLACK PRIDE (NATIONALISM):

Compare Christopher Columbus and Charles Darwin to "pirates" and "vampires" who robbed blacks of their identities and human rights.
"Black lands taken from your hands, by vampires with no remorse,"...
"They took the gold, the wisdom and all the storytellers. They took the black women, with the black man weak. Made to watch as they changed the paradigm of our village...
I sailed on an Ocean so wide; but Columbus that man helped divide; the truth into lies; supported by alibis; now his-story stays alive...

If we did our research, which perspective could be supported by actual proof and which one is spewing emotional ignorance? Which one would you raise hell over? Truth or lies?

Rainmain, AlphaFrog and Paradise you got two seconds.

@Paradise...

You said - you are not AF-AM but you are black...Your views won't totally gel with AF-AM...

Why not? If you are of carribean descent or the Bahamas then you could totally gel...I am JAMAICAN and I am totally gellin...

mind you I am aware our stories will not be exactly the same... which ones ever are BUT the OPPRESSOR is the same and has brainwashed us whether we are CARRIBEANS or AF-AM....

Thank you for your point of view Jubilance. My mother raised us to be very aware of our culture and our past. I truly appreciate her telling us the truth. Here is the but. She fed us in digestable pieces. What we could handle for our age. I do the same with my son. He is now 11 and I am now discussing with him what society thinks about black men and what his education needs to mean to him. I wouldnt have dared told him those things at 6 or 7.

But I do hear you.

@ teena

So I guess you would also have a problem with the Jews, Italians, Arabs, Africans, since they teach their kids about oppression, cultural pride, etc...

I understand its your opinion and I respect it...


:)

NO NO NO. Dont misunderstand. I think it needs to be age appropriate. 6 and 7 is way to young. Even if they are gifted.

I dig what you are saying. At 6,7,8 I had to write reports on various Black people (Langston Hughes, Sojourner Truth, etc.) before I could go outside and play. So indirectly I was getting the lesson about how the world is, because I was learning about the adversity these folks went through.

I hear ya on age appropriateness but I would like to share a story about myself...

At the age of 5 I wish I was a white girl...I use to take my mother's white slips and tie it around my head. I would swear that I am a blonde white girl!!! My dad would tell me I am "black" and I would cry and say I AM BROWN!!! I would take the black crayon and the brown crayon to him and prove my point...It was at that point he set the record straight...SOOO

I'm just sayin that other cultures instill a lot of its history in their youths - some younger than 7 years old. But it does depend on whether a child is capable of digesting all this stuff...I think Autum is capable...

But I dig your point.

Re: /\/\/\/\/\
 

No, you're not the only one. I'm still tyring to figure it all out.

Good point. My daughter is 7 and always says she wants yellow hair and that her hair is 'different' from her friends' hair. It's an issue that's starts earlier than we may think.

Why do you consider speaking up about injustice whining? As an educated, successful Black woman, I have to use the status that my success has afforded me to speak on behalf of those who do not have a voice or access to power. I don't know how you operate, but I can "work on what's right" and not only be concerned about racism, but actually doing something about racism.

My daughter started asking those questions at age 3. She is 4 now and I make sure to instill in her an appreciation for her beauty. Most of the books I read to her have African- American illustrations. For instance she has a Goldilocks book where the little girl has braids with gold beads on them (very creative twist on a classic). In my frequent reminders of not to let "them" play in her hair, I tell her that her brown curly hair and deep brown eyes are beautiful (who wants yellow hair anyway?). So I am hoping that she won't have those image issues in the future (have to start them early).

There is so much I want to say about this thread, but I don't think that I could do so more thoroughly and eloquently than Jubilance has. She is right on point.

My question is for SKEEphistAKAte and mulattogyrl. Both of your girls are still young. Would you go into graphic, detailed discussion on the Middle Passage, right now? Would you tell them, right now, about slave auctions and the rape of the women? After you tell them that, mention that racism still exists?

That's my issue.

Don't be so sure teena. I have a "gifted" child . At eight, my daughter wrote a letter to the editor about U. S. involvement in Afghanistan and had some choice words for the President. She composed and typed the letter on our home computer. She then sent it to our local paper. I found out about it when they called me to ask if the letter should be published. Gifted children have minds of their own and the ability to express what they are thinking. They really do think about things that are considered adult issues.

I agree with you on the bolded. One of the things I despise most, and this is solely because of my own personal experience, is for someone to assume that a child's views and feelings are merely a regurgitation of their parents. Don't ever underestimate the brilliance of a child!

ETA: As far back as I can remember, my mother ALWAYS told me the truth about the world and she certainly was not (and still isn't) the type to sugarcoat an issue. Why do we want to shy away from these issues while a child is still young and then suddenly want to bombard them with all the issues as they face them head on? So no, I have NO issue with the fact that her parents have graphically taught her about her history.

OK. THIS^^^ is why dialogue is soooo important. The young gifted children that I have come across cant operate at that level.
I would have NEVER guessed that.

Exactly @ gifted children. Never underestimate the capabilities of a child's mind. :cool:

I definitely PLAN to teach my daughter about all of those things. She is 4 and I don't think that she would fully grasp it right now. However, if something ever came up that would allow me to introduce it to her (teachers call that "teachable moments") I would do so and explain things in a simplified manner. It is kind of like the birds and the bees. Small kids ask "where do babies come from" at a really young age. When they do, you give them simplified answers that they can understand and as they get older you can go into more detail. That is how I will approach racial issues.

We've already done some though, because she came home last month and asked "mommy, when is black history month?" They'd done some stuff on MLK at school. So, I gave her the 4 year old version of MLK and the civil rights struggle at that time. You know, in plain language and using scenarios that she would understand. For instance, she has a little white girl at school that she is good friends with and I said that not so long ago her and the little girl wouldn't have been able to be friends or go to school and play together and I went on from there.

So, I don't think that it is something that you should shield your kids from at any age. I feel like you just have to explain it to them in terms that they understand. I also think that it is important to get to them before the school system does. So when she goes to elementary school she will know the REAL history and be able to tell truth from lies as this 7 year old girl did. But, yeah I could see us having a conversation about slavery and slave auctions right now. But it wouldn't be really graphic, I wouldn't sit her down to watch Amistad or anything like that. Right now I think is the time to lay the foundation, the more gruesome facts will come when I think she is ready.

My little brother had a gifted kid in his class and what used to amaze me about him is teachers would invite him to lunch in the teachers lounge and talk politics....

so i fully agree that gifted children have their own opinions and free will.

What is killing me is yall are trying to give her a scholarship... she's going to any school nationwide on a full ride!!! I'll donate on the pony though.

Have you and your daughter seen the Black History Month episode of The Proud Family? Not sure if you watch it, but that was one of the sub storylines -- in 1955, Penny and Zoe would not have been able to be friends because Penny is Black and Zoe is White.

Also wanted to point out that Autum is being raised by her father. :)

^^ Yes. I've seen that episode but I don't think my daughter has.
It was a really cute episode. Like, I would be able to show that to her, but not a more gruesome adult movie like Amistad.

I also wanted to add, to Teena:

When dealing with children, you cannot go on age alone. You have to consider the MATURITY of the child. A child age 7 can be more mature and able to handle more than a 13 year old. So, don't get caught up with age or intelligence even. It is about maturity.

Are you implying that children have to be ignorant of their surrounding, their history, and the paradigm of society in order to enjoy her childhood? If so, I disagree. She is home-schooled. Those children tend to be more advanced, because they have one on one attention, as they learn. They are able to learn at their own pace, which allows them to ask more questions than the child who sits in a class with 25+ other children. We do not know that she is simply regurgitating her parents' beliefs. She may be espousing her own beliefs, based on what she knows about history.

If she is like the home-schooled children that I know, of all races, then she is probably enjoying her childhood more than the children sitting in class all day. Home-schooled children receive a couple of hours of instruction per day, and they go on tons of field trips and other activities with other home-schooled children. They also have networks, where they may receive instruction from other parents, who home-school, who are experts in a given field.

These children have play dates, field trips, proms, dances, and vacations together. They are exposed to more fun and bliss than most of the children who sit in classrooms all day. I'm sure this young lady is having the time of her life. Her childhood is more than likely ideal.

^^^Exactly! Cause its some adults who act worse than children. :rolleyes:

Re: /\/\/\/\/\
 

Holla!

I don't think it's all surprising what the school board did. I'm not condoning their actions, but I'm not surprised by it either. School boards will apologize for anything that upsets the staus quo.
An example (although a little off topic) - I sang in the chamber choir with my elementary school. We had a christmas concert at a Christian church. The head of the school board decided it was appropriate to get up and apologize to our audience for sining Christmas carols. We were in a Christian church at Christmas time!
These bureaucrats are living in a fantasy land and the moment some on "upsets this perfect balance" of theirs they have to try and settle it down. But I certainly agree with you.

The flip side of this coin is the fact that our children 'appear' to be mature when actually they aren't. They are given access to info when they arent really able to process it properly. Evidence of this is teenage pregnancy statistics, crime in schools and the new surge of young adults committing murder. They are getting this bad info from television and music. While I am not implying that the cause of these problems is solely over exposure to inappropriate information, I believe that it has played a tremendous role.

Back on topic. This little girl will grow up to be a fabulous woman doing faboulous things. Her parents are doing a great job with her especially if she is confident and confortable in her own skin. But, I am concerned that she will feel cheated because she didnt have much of a childhood.

Please, I beg of you, DON'T FEED THE TROLL! This child appears to have Tourette's Syndrome, affecting her keystrokes, so she can't control her ramblings. Ignore her, and she'll go away.

A child's maturity and ability to handle the truth of their history will be a judgment call that the parents would have to make on an individual basis. I missed your point with the statistics, etc. I think a parent who cares and is dedicated enough to teach their child history is capable of accessing their child's maturity and ability to handle the truth.

Where are you getting the idea that this child "didn't have much of a childhood"? Because her dad taught her the truth, etc. that took away her childhood? I disagree.

Irony.

Absolutely. And, I'm also impressed with her knowledge. She has some caring parents who keep her life balanced (with all the movies, tv, video games and other distractions out there...dang!) I hope I can do so well with my own children.

I saw this story on the news the other day but I couldn't stay for the full report. So, I only had a piece. Thanks for the extra info, CT4!!

What she said, lol.

I have talked to my daughter about slavery. Just like SKEEphistAKAte said, I don't go into detail about certain things because she may not be able to grasp that yet. I do think she should know about her history, however. I see nothing wrong with that.

Re: Controversial Poem Puts 7-Year-Old On Hot Seat
 

Nope.