O not this again, MODS PLEASE BAN THESE IDIOTS!!!

Our sweethearts can (embroidered letters). It is generally accepted that they should only do so on very special occasions because while we allow it, we don't like to allow it very often. We also have only had three sweethearts ever--it's a big deal, not just another girl every year.

Regarding the other topics, we vote on sweetheart as well as giving a brother the right to lavalier a girl. If they break up, he has to swallow it [the lavalier].

I was sweetheart @ my school and I either wore the letters the boys gave me OR a pin they gave me every single day, even before I wore my own letters. But that is because I loved my boys that much :)

I was presented with a badge replica necklace by the International President (Grand Praetor??) in 1986 for the work I did helping a local become a chapter of Sigma Chi. I am very proud of it, and think it fair to say I am entitled to wear it.

Oh I would say you are very entitled to wear it!

FYI: the "international president" is called Grand Counsul. A Grand Praetor oversees chapters within a Province (specific geographical area). Their primary responsibility is to be a chapter's link with the General Fraternity in all undergraduate matters. As such, it could have been either the Grand Counsul or the Grand Praetor for the Province that presented you with your necklace. In either case, thank you for your hard work.

Thanks for the correction - it was the Grand Consul (Keith Sorenson, I think) who presented it to me. If my scanner were working, I'd show you the picture!

I don't think anyone but initiated members should wear the letters period. I mean if pledges arent allowed to wear the letters, and they must earn that honor, then why should people who dont do anything pledge wise be able to wear the letters. The letters represent a bond between the brothers and have some meaning behind them, if random people just wear these letters without knowing the meaning behind them then i think its just wrong. Only initiated members should wear the letters

Some of our sweethearts did more for the chapter then some pledges.

RutgersPIKE - many GLOs allow pledges to wear letters. The idea of "earning" your letters is now seen as an invitation to haze. Wearing letters indicates you are a member (even if a pledge) of that GLO. I like "mom" shirts - i.e. Gamma Phi Beta mom, Sigma Chi dad; and I also like legacy shirts (I'm in the process of getting some for my sons). Then there are the shirts for events such as Greek Week or Derby Days, which feature all of the letters of different GLOs. Do you not wear shirts like that, and is that a personal preference or a II K A philosophy? Not being snarky - I really am interested in knowing what different national/international GLOs have to say about the issue.

First of all, not allowing pledges to wear letters is hazing. It's also hazing to call them pledges instead of New Members. [That topic, however, is debatable, and let's not go there.]

Secondly, just because we don't know what IIKA stands for doesn't mean that a sweetheart who has worked for your chapter doesn't appreciate what you do and who you are, and wants to strive for your fraternity to succeed in the highest degree. And you know what? That means something.

I understand that is like hazing, but I also know that I wasnt hazed at all during pledging and that I still feel like I had to finish my pledging before I could wear the letters, I just feel that the letters represent something more and that I really wouldnt appreciate it if anyone who is not a brother is walking around with the Pi Kappa Alpha on them because they really dont know what it represents, I understand some sweethearts might have done some work and even know a little bit about it, but the letters represent the bond I share with my brothers and I feel that brothers should be the only ones wearing my letters, I wouldnt even let my mother wear my pike hoodie when she asked me and was cold, call me cruel or whatever, but this is just something I strongly believe

Me personally, I think it's ok for mom to wear it. But it isn't a crime to feel strongly about your letters.

As far as I understand it, guys choose sweethearts...not just one of them. It seems to me that if the majority of the chapter thinks it's ok...then good deal.

I feel the same about lavalieres...it is a little different when it isn't run by the whole chapter. But if a brother laveliered a girl and he was approached by a group of brothers who were concerened about it...it seems like it would be reasonable to expect him to explain the situation to her and offer a nice shiny bauble instead.

It just has a lot to do with campus culture.

I guess this is a Rutgers thing, but sweethearts really arent used in our school, I just know the mindset of the brothers at the Alpha Psi chapter of Pike is that only brothers wear letters, just because we all feel the same about the bond, I do not disagree with the fraternities that do let their sweethearts wear letters, I just wouldnt like to see my fraternity do it, instead we would let them wear PIKES on their shirt, because that is a nickname and has no meaning, unlike our letters, I guess I just take that meaning to a different level lol

And as for my mother wearing my letters, she is greatly disappointed in my decision to pledge, so she doesnt deserve to wear the letters lol, let her freeze (but I do love my mother more than the world lol)

Well it's a personal thing, anyway. It's between you and your momma.:)

My observations may be limited, but it has been my obervation that this is one of those men-and-women-are-different things. My observation has been that many if not most men's GLOs (but certainly not all) do not consider pledges, or whatever other term is used, to be "members," at least not full members.

One of the ways that this is expressed is by reserving the right to wear letters until after initiation. As has been pointed out many times before here at GC, many if not most men's GLOs have a second vote prior to initiation -- meaning that a "pledge' must not only be voted on to get a bid but that he must be voted on a second time at the end of the pledge period for initiation. This is part of the practice underlying the idea of "earning" one's letters.

It also has to do with the culture or rules of the specific GLO.

Our National Constitution was amended at our last National Assembly to address this very issue. Our Constitution now specifically states that only brothers in good standing are permitted to wear or display our letters or our coat-of-arms. It also states that probationary members (pledges) "may not wear or otherwise display these symbols at any time prior to initiation," and that brothers "may not authorize or encourage" anyone who is not an initiated brother to wear or display our letters or coat-of-arms. (Which means that chapters are having to come up with lavelier-alternatives for sweethearts and fiancees. Perhaps a national alternative will be provided.)

ETA: It has been a regulation for years that probationary members could not wear the letters. (Like TSteven describes with Sigma Chi, they can wear clothing with the words "Phi Mu Alpha.") The recent constitutional amendment was simply a strengthening of the rule in that regard.

Men and Women are different. Vive la difference.

I understand for fraternities letting sweethearts wear letters because sweethearts do some work for the fraternity, but how do you feel about girlfriends or boyfriends wearing letters, I saw some guys giving their girlfriends their hoodies to wear, but I would never do that

Not allowing pledges to wear letters or calling pledges "pledges" is not hazing. For example, if a man chooses to accept a bid from Sigma Chi Fraternity, from that point on he is considered a Sigma Chi pledge and may wear shirts, etc., with the words "Sigma Chi" or "Sigs" but not the Greek letters Sigma Chi. This is a national regulation. I believe that Alpha Epsilon Phi, Kappa Alpha Theta and Pi Beta Phi have something similar in place regarding "new members" wearing letters. As for pledges being called pledges, I'm fairly sure other NIC/IFC fraternities do this as well. However, I am not sure about any NPC organization doing so.

Also, many organizations have strict or specific rules (policy) about non members wearing their letters. With guidelines as to how and why.

The reason we are running into a brick wall with reference to what hazing is, is because NPC has a very distinct definition of what it is. According to NPC, hazing IS not allowing women to wear letters, and calling them pledges instead of new members. Although fraternities and sororities share many likelesses, therein lies the difference between NIC/IFC and NPC organizations.

MysticCat-that is exactly what im talking about in earning your letters, as well as the appropriate people on wearing letters, I just feel strongly on who should wear them or not, and I think we both can agree that only initiated members should be the ones wearing the letters, I just feel that more people should feel this way to, I just hope that the other Pike chapters agree with me

I know I'm a girl, but I personally think it seems a little out of line. I wouldn't give my jersey to a guy to wear (um...not that he'd want to anyway haha). I think the lavalieres are inconspicuous and are SUPPOSED to have meaning behind them...but it's not something that the fraternity men would be wearing. At least I'm pretty sure. And usually sweetheart shirts are designated as such. And even sweetheart bages are not exactly like a guy's badge. But sewn on letters are. The only time I've worn guy sewn on letters was as a coach for Lip Jam...we usually wear a shirt of theirs to support the team and that's what I was given. But I would personally feel very out of place just casually wearing it in the same way I wear my own.

I was ok with giving my mom a set of letters that said "Mom" underneath. I WASN'T ok with her buying letters for herself.:mad::mad:

Actually, in my state, calling a new member a pledge is against the law because it's hazing. Nationals also condemns it. It is reminiscent of the days in which a new member was required to participate in unfortunate events in order to initiate, aka hazing.

At least in AST, not allowing a new member to wear letters IS hazing, because it's telling them that they can't do certain things unless they're initiated. It's the same thing as requiring them to wear certain clothing all the time, which IS hazing.

Whether a certain org's nationals have strict rules about non members wearing letters is one thing. However, if Nationals does NOT say that it is verboten, then it is left up to the individual chapter, and it shoudln't matter to us.

Hazing is defined as any action or situation with or without consent which recklessly, intentionally or unintentionally endangers the mental or physical health or safety of a student, or creates risk of injury, or causes discomfort, embarrassment, harassment or ridicule or which willfully destroys or removes public or private property for the purpose of initiation or admission into or affiliation with, or as a condition for continued membership in a chapter or colony of an NPC member fraternity. All member groups will affirm their policies denouncing hazing and inform their membership of this NPC position denouncing hazing through mailings and through their inter/national magazines.

http://www.npcwomen.org/policies/p_resolutions.php

Kind of cryptic, but it covers all of the bases, I guess.

I think I'd be the same way, but my mom's a KD, so she doesn't really feel the need for that kinda stuff. So no worries for me.

Awww your mama's a KD?! :)

Yep! Well...everyone in the family (except one wayward cousin who went Phi Mu) was until me.

Is that really in your Fraternal law or just in your tradition? I recently found out that Sigma Nu has no such rule against pledges wearing letters....we just don't let them do in 99% of our chapters because it's messed up.

I do not really see what the Heck the big deal is.

Sweet Heart of XYZ is showing they are ladies who feel XYZ and the members are special. They are not pronouncing them selves as members are they?

Same things go for Moms or Dads. LOL!

PNM wearing letters show who they are affiliated with, wearing the Coat of Arms is a no, no.

This is a form of Advertising for that GLO!

Goodness, the popcycle unstuck from an oraface!

If Your GLO has rules then do not do it. If it is not spelled out ask!

The problem today is not enough GLOs are proud enough to let others know their affiliation by wearing letters, C of A, or Pins!:rolleyes: Is that saying you are not PROUD of Your GLO?:(

My mom is a "I wish I could have gone greek"...so she likes wearing my letters.

That is actually really sweet. :) Did you get her an ASA Mama shirt?

I'm sorry, but I simply can't believe that. Aside from the fact that the First Amendment would trump any law that prohibited the use of a word, which is what you're talking about, there are too many fraternities that still officially use the word pledge. I have seen lots of legal definitions of hazing, and I have never seen a legal definition, as opposed to, say, the NPC's definition, that would cover calling a "new member" a pledge. (And I think it's debatable that the NPC definition covers it as written, but I will certainly defer to the NPC's interpretation of its own policy.)

Which state?

That may be an Alpha Sigma Tau rule, but it isn't for all organizations. Again, my understanding is that Alpha Epsilon Phi, Kappa Alpha Theta and Pi Beta Phi do not allow their "new members" to wear their letters prior to initiation.

There is specific language in Sigma Chi Fraternity's Constitution or the By-laws that states who may wear letters etc.

I guess its a good thing im NIC because we a)use the word pledges and b)dont allow pledges to wear letters, we allow them to wear PIKES but not the letters. I dont see why that is hazing, its just like making your high school sports team, if you dont make the team, you dont get a jersey, so why is it different for fraternities or sororities, if you dont make it, why should you wear the letters?

Since Alpha Epsilon Phi, Kappa Alpha Theta and Pi Beta Phi do not allow their "new members" to wear their letters prior to initiation, I guess the NPC doesn't consider it hazing. Or at least it doesn't fall under the y'all's Unanimous Agreements.

Both.

Mind set for some!;)


What ever one wants to call it, you still allow nebies to wear some kind of recognition and that is good!

It is still called ADVERTISING Your GLO for others on campus, right?

Gosh, who may seem some neat guy or gal and say hey, I want to talk to you about Your GLO! OOPS, may get a new prospect! Da, Me for not getting it!:rolleyes:

Yea we can advertise our GLO to others on campus by the brothers wearing the letters and if we do allow others to wear the shirts, we allow them to wear shirts with PIKE on it and not ΠKA, since pike is our nickname. Im sorry but I just see the meaning behind the letters as being more than just the letters.

I agree for the most part. But a few things I would like to address.

1. What is the difference with respect to hazing in allowing a pledge/new member/affiliate to wear letters but not the coat of arms? If it is hazing to not allow letters, then why is is not hazing for the coat of arms?

2. Yes, if the GLO has rules about it, then they should be followed.

3. Sigma Chi pledges are encouraged to wear shirts that spell out Sigma Chi. Which quite frankly, gets the word out quite well. Especially to those that may not know the Greek Alphabet. No "What does EX mean" questions. At least not yet.

Taking that very good question a step further, if it is hazing to forbid a pledge/new member/affiliate from wearing letters or the coat-of-arms, isn't it also hazing to forbid them from wearing the badge? Doesn't having a separate pledge/new member pin tell the new members that they're different and can't do certain things unless they're initiated?

Just asking.