Are you insane?? This has been my only request the entire time, from my reply to your original post . . . I'll recap my rebuttal for you, excising the unnecessary portions of the presentation:

1 - It is truly a worldwide event that the Pope has died, as he has more influence than 99% of all world leaders.

2 - This event's impact is not limited to Catholics.

3 - While I praise John Paul II for his personal qualities and respect the sadness felt by followers, I also encourage (eventually) using this opportunity for open discussion of the problems that have existed within the church.

4 - As a corollary, I hope that the new head of the Church can begin to address these problems, and continue the 'modernization' of the Church.

5 - As an example of this modernization, I introduce the post hoc apology to Galileo - this was done centuries later, in order to show a modernizing, science-accepting element to the Church. However, there were portions of the Church who only accepted because of a technicality (Galileo's theory is essentially invalidated by modern understanding of the universe). This is the tension I see currently at work.

Work with me, not against some perception of Rudey or connection between the two of us.

I've tried these kinds of in-depth discussions on GC and other chat boards before. They don't work.

Work *with* you? On THIS thread? After being insulted right off the bat and making it *very* clear that you are not interested in mutual dialogue but in making your point w/ a lead pipe? If you were really serious, you would have dropped the hard-core offense and/or taken the discussion private before bringing it back here later.

You're asking me if *I'm* insane?

Fair enough, check your PM box.

Ask her to point out where the insults were. I can point out quite a few like when she said I had mental weaknesses :(

-Rudey

http://pic12.picturetrail.com/VOL433...2/68134491.jpg

ETA: They just said on the news that the pope will be buried in three coffins. HOW?? Are they like those Russian dolls that fit inside each other or do they like CHOP HIM UP????

I have no idea. This seems odd. They did not teach this is school. I would guess it is like the Russian dolls.

ALSO, since you posted a random picture I get one too.

http://www.crownvideo.com/pictures/SC100D.jpg

I think this is the funniest DVD cover ever because Luther is trying to look seductive or something. He is like "Hey Catholic ladies, I can get married, so let's get to the lovin'!"

By tradition, it is a cypress coffin inside a lead coffin, inside an elm coffin. The purpose is to preserve and protect the coffin's contents, which includes not only the pope himself, but documents and other important items.

By tradition, the cypress coffin signifies that the popes are human and are buried like common people. The lead coffin bears the name and coat-of-arms of the pope, and the dates of his pontificate. In it are placed not only the cypress coffin, but also copies of the documents of profound importance issued under the pope's seal. The broken seal of office is placed within the lead coffin by the Camerlengo prior to final closure. The last coffin is made of elm, the most precious of local woods available in Rome, which is used to signify the great dignity of the man being laid to his rest.

While it may sound a little odd, is it that different from the American practice of placing water-proof coffins in lead, water-proof vaults?

Thanks for explaining this. I had no idea.

My mom and I were talking about when she and my father went to the Basilica...apparently you can actually "SEE" the dead Popes. The only reason the subject came up was I told her about the announcement that he was not going to be embalmed. I can see where the triple coffin idea will keep him preserved, but how can you "SEE" the Pope. I will have to ask her more on that.

Some of the early popes are in the catacombs and not in coffins.

Thats kinda creepy how he isnt embalmed. I know they say he was 'prepared', but I am thinking that after 5 days, hes probably gotta start smelling or something.

If I have raw chicken in the trash it starts to smell after 3 days. I can imagine what a raw human smells like.

Does anyone know if the Vatican is going to honor Poland's request that his heart be buried in Poland? I know they asked. It sounds freaky but some people have done it like Chopin and this other guy who's heart in buried in Arlinton national but his body is somewhere else.

As I understand it, that is a Polish custom.

I have not heard for sure one way or the other, but the last news report I heard it didn't seem likely.

One report I read indicated that the Vatican had suggested it might happen if/when JPII is beatified.

Please accept my sympathy on the passing of your aunt. I'm glad that the events of the week have brought a certain peace about it!

Technically the second coffin has to be made of metal... and in this case it won't be lead but zinc...

Thanks for the clarification.

I thought the Vatican spokesman flat-out stated that they would not follow through with the tradition.

Yeah... I always thought that tradition dictated that the Pope(s) be buried whole - so that they arise whole on the Day of Judgement - hence the fact that any tissue removed from John Paul II after the shooting (such as some intestine) was stored so that upon death his body could be made "whole" again...

Sound like Vatican Urban Legend to me, given the long-standing and only recently relaxed requirement that all altars contain a relic of a saint -- meaning that saints' bodies were divied up all over the place. That's why the one report I heard that the heart might go to Poland on JPII's beatification makes some sense.

FYI -- the CNN story I read about this can be found here. On re-reading, I see that I misread: it was a Polich church official, not a Vatican one, who has done this speculating.

Last try....
 

KSigRC--

I can't reply to your PM because your box is full. If you're serious about a discussion, clean it out, please.

Re: Last try....
 

Done.

Jesus. Katie Couric is narrating the Papal Funeral for NBC. WHO made the decision to let her do this? Especially after her comments at the Olympic opening games last year???? At least Bob Costas wasnt involved. I've said it before and I'll repeat it again, someone outta bitch slap the crap outta KC every time she thinks shes cute or *americas sweetheart*. (she was on the cover of a good housekeeping mag at the gym and I had to take it out of the display and throw it in the trash, lol)

See thread: http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...s&pagenumber=1

Also, can a catholic or somebody clarify for me (maybe the vatican uses a different numbering system then my good ole King James Version of the Bible (ya know how fond the catholics and english were of each other around that time) ) why they were calling it the 22nd psalm "The lord is my shepard.." when I remember it as being the 23rd Psalm (also looked it up on line). The graphics also identified it as 'psalm 22'

I dont get it..

The King James Bible, and most Protestants use the Hebrew numbering of the Psalms, the Catholic and Orthodox Churches use the Greek numbering of the Psalms (based on Jerome's translation) - they become different around Psalm 10.

We're bummed. I set the VCR to record the funeral, but in my late night stupor set it to come on at 3:00 PM instead of 3:00 AM.

After 3 days a deceased body in a locked dorm room smells like backed up sewage at 50 feet. (Source: me, lived 4 doors down from a dead guy for a week when I lived in the dorms)

My guess is the Pope's body was annointed with perfumes & incense while on display.

Actually he was embalmed shortly after his death.

That is what I would have thought....but all the reports out of the Vatican said he was "prepared" but not embalmed after death.

I know from what my mom is guessing...there was an air conditioner under the altar he was on for the last few days that kept his body "fresh."

Actually, most all reports say he WASN'T embalmed. Most notably slate.com has an entire article on how he wasnt embalmed at : http://slate.msn.com/id/2116395/