YES....but I'm not sure you're understanding my question. I was talking about *human nature* - and yes, even Christian people are subject to it. If all of the members of societies at BJU are able to look past a given rushee's funny clothes, poor social skills, and unattractive looks, then great. I'm just not 100% confident that ALL members of ALL of the 20+ women's groups are able to put aside thoughts of "Boy, I sure hope she doesn't sign up for our group." What I am wondering is *if* this is an issue and, if so, *how* that works out.

.....Kelly :)

Maybe to them less desirable is on the basis of Christianity and the strength of their Christian character. In that case, is it really judging? I'm not quite sure. Seems like a philosophical question that could lead to a whole other thread alone.

I wasn't complaining about kddani's post or anything. She mentioned having this thread moved to Chit Chat. However, because *I* am still interested in talking about BJU's "greek life", I tried to salvage the thread. Does that make more sense now? :confused:

.....Kelly :)

This may not answer your question entirely but it may give you some insight. I found this web site last year and I thought that it was pretty interesting. IMHO, I think that people from these types of homes may be more apt to attend BJU. It fits in with many of their beliefs.

http://www.momof9splace.com/modesty3.html

The submissiveness issue is not actually involved here. (And anyway the definition of "submission" is the subject of constant debate.) It is modesty, though I personally don't believe that a woman can't be modest in jeans or slacks. :rolleyes:

Sorry for the double post, but I think the most important section on that website is "Will it Cause Others to Stumble." That's vitally important! Now, I don't so much agree with using the Old Testament passages that are on that website (the author even questions it somewhat) because with Jesus came a New Covenant. But I'm sure BJU DOES refer to the OT in these circumstances.

Oh aopirose, you don't know what that website does to me. ;)

Hmmm...I wonder how he feels about kilts? They're supposed to be menswear, but would he feel the same?

Kilts vs. Dresses
 

Actually, it should be fairly clear that Kilts and Dresses are different. Dresses are worn with something underneath them...

BTW, I'm an alumnus of Carnegie-Mellon in Pittsburgh. Our school colors are the Carnegie Tartan Pattern (Fortunately we also have athletic colors for the uniforms for the sports teams). And you can specialize in Bagpipe in majoring in Music. (One of only two schools in North America where you can do that, I understand, the other being Simon Frasier in British Columbia, Canada)

Randy

I have gone to church for the better part of 10 years. I beleive in the ideals in the bible and enjoy the company of others who share similar beliefs as mine.

With that i have to say that many christians that I have meet have been the most judgemental, the most likely to critisise (sp) the most unsupportive of most of my endevorse in life. I would imagine (since i went to a christian college) that BJU is similar to this. I would imagine they as a school have the front of being loving and accepting and wanting to help people be the best christians that they can be. I have not read their web site but from my own expereince i can only guess that the website talks about a loving supporting christiand atmosphere that will help a man (and they probably use the word man) grow in his faith by being a community that provides a place without distraction and the sins of the world.

But in reality its a place of judegement, support only comes when you do things exactly as they interprete and do not allow any interpretations for yourself (i would suggest looking up why the prodestant reformation happened anyway, ie to be able to interpret the bible ourselves) that you have to do things the way that they do them and exactly like they do them otherwise their is something wrong with you and how you have to change to be right.

You might be thinking that i have probably been hurt and have some issue to deal with. I would say yes, i get really tired of people telling me what i am doing wrong and how i am not follwing Gods plan for my life, yet God have never told me that I am doing anything wrong. Hummm??

I agree with most of what you've said. However, I wanted to point out to you - for the record - that the Bible does tell us to help each other along the path. In fact, if a person claiming to be a brother or sister in Christ continues to act in ways contrary to the Christian walk, we are to disassociate from that person. Of course, if we are just doing things that people don't like (i.e. I'm in seminary and my home church's elders have essentially said I'm completely wrong because women shouldn't be in ministry) but the things are not contrary to biblical teaching, you have to just chalk it up to the imperfection of humanity.

But you can also argue that you shouldn't help other Christians unless there is no sin in your life. Jesus said in the Gospels that if they point out a speck from another person's eye, then they shouldn't have a plank in their own eye. Another words, why are you going to address sins to your fellow brother or sister when you have sins (and I mean severe sin) in your own life?

I must disagree with the above statement about disassociating ourselves. We as Christians have Christ as an example to follow. Christ did not judge sinners but came to save them. Therefore he came to save everyone. Christ ate with Tax Collectors and in that time they were considered the most unholy of them all. Could it be that true Christian living calls for us not to help those who are already well in Christ but to help those in sin as we lift ourseleves as well?

Re: Kilts vs. Dresses
 

I'm form Pittsburgh and have gone to various things at CMU from time to time (my good friend has his masters from there, I'm applying there for grad school once I'm done here). It's always neat to watch the bagpiping class in the cut. One person at each end. It's just bizzare to hear bagpipe music in the middle of Oakland.

Disassociating is not helpful. Christians are not the Amish, we are not supposed to shun.

I apologize in advance, I'm not interested in debating today...it's been one of those.

Anyway, I offer for your opinion these verses from 2 Thessalonians:

3:14 And if any man obeyeth not our word by this epistle, note that man, that ye have no company with him, to the end that he may be ashamed.

3:15 And [yet] count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

-American Standard Version

*I don't believe I'll be speaking any more on it because I don't want to go back and forth with anyone. Please note that I do respect your opinions and am interested in the ways through which you come to them (it helps me look at my own values). So, do not think that I'm trying to hit anyone over the head with a Bible.

<--- waiting for someone to tell you that you're not really Christian b/c you're a Catholic

/hijack

That mentallity never fails to amaze and sicken me.

MAYBE, but consdier this............there are a couple of Christian fraternities where I went to school. Members had to go though a rush/interview/mutual selection type process. Just because someone CLAIMS to be Christian, does not mean they are. I can say I'm a super model till I'm blue in the face, but that doesn't make it so. My point is this. Many of these groups have certain purposes (missions, evangelism, etc) and if people are trying to join for reasons other than wanting to fulfill these purposes, they will not get in. Right or wrong, that's the way it is sometimes.

I agree, it's outrageous to say that because a person is Catholic they are not Christian. No one can judge a person's soul. BUT, as far as "judging" people, we can choose to associate or not associate with someone because of their actions. It's two completely different things.

Well if you ladies are Christian or not, it doesn't bother me much now. If y'all are lookers, well by golly I will be a taker.

-Rudey
--Yessirree!

STAY ON TOPIC. this is a good thread, would hate to see it closed.

Well, I *tried*. I vote to go ahead and move it since people:

a) couldn't keep on the topic of Greek Life at religious institutions

and

b) look like they're about to get into a major discussion regarding association with sinners and "Who is a real Christian?" (which would be really uncool in the Greek Life forum).

:(

.....Kelly :)

Dear Kathleen,

You are so much smarter than me that I am going to quote out of a little-used version of the Bible, out of context, and then refuse to debate with you.

In His Love, as long as you are righteous by my personal definition,
preciousjeni

I'm Greek at a religious institution. Is that enough for you? Marquette is having rush this week. The Sigma Lambda Betas were all wearing nice purple shirts. SigEp's 2007 pledge class has nice hoodies. I saw an AXO with a cute bag. Also, I walked past two churches.

You've never heard of NAS? It's a standard version...NAS, NIV, KJV.

We use the NRSV at my university and I used the KJV in parochial school.

And I said little-used, not that I've never heard of it. Another example of how you confused them:

Pat Robertson has a little-used mind, but I have heard of it.

New American Standard is used by a lot of Catholics.

Not around here it's not.

None that I know.

Hi, I am Tom.

I beleive in a Supreme Being no matter what He is supposed to be called and by whom!

This thread was on a specifc subject and has down graded to Who is Right and What Relegion!

:(

So either get back on track or Lock it!:) \
Have a quality, that is all!:D

Just building My Post Numbers!:)

New pres
 

Thu, Jan. 20, 2005

Bob Jones U. President to Retire

Associated Press


GREENVILLE, S.C. - Bob Jones III said Thursday he will retire as president of the fundamentalist Christian university that bears his name and his son will take over.

Jones, whose grandfather founded Bob Jones University 78 years ago, has been president for 34 of his 65 years.

The school has grabbed headlines over the years for its involvement in conservative politics and its racial policies.

In February 2000, then presidential candidate George W. Bush spoke at Bob Jones University during his campaign. He was criticized for the visit because at the time, the school banned interracial dating.

The policy has since been dropped.

When Jones retires, following the school's graduation ceremonies in May, he will be replaced by the Rev. Stephen Jones, who has served as vice president for administration.

"The opportunity to step into the role occupied by my father, grandfather and great-grandfather is overwhelming," Stephen Jones, 35, said. "I am eager for the days that lie ahead for Bob Jones University and believe that the Lord has wonderful things in store for us as we remain faithful to his word."

In a congratulatory letter after Bush won re-election in November, Jones III wrote: "In your re-election, God has graciously granted America - though she doesn't deserve it - a reprieve from the agenda of paganism."

"You have been given a mandate. ... Put your agenda on the front burner and let it boil. You owe the liberals nothing. They despise you because they despise your Christ," said the letter, dated Nov. 3.

Wow! Alota internet ink spilled on this one.

But for those with no experience with these things, you should
know that not ALL Christian schools, or even ALL Baptist
schools, are even close to BJU. (Of course, BJU would say
they really aren't Christian schools).

There are alot of "moderate" Baptist colleges out there, many
with fraternities: Baylor, Union (TN), Georgetown (KY),
Samford (AL), Wake Forest, amongst others. Shorter College,
a Baptist college in GA, recently decided to allow national
fraternities....and a few chapters have already been
chartered (Chi Phi for one).

Being an alum of, and a faculty member at, a Baptist college,
as well as large state-run universities, I can say I feel much
more academic freedom at a "moderate" Christian college
than at a state-run school.

At State-U, one would be fired
if not tarred and feathered if they even tried to mention
anything "religious" in a non-religion course. Academic
freedom means you can talk about ANYTHING YOU WANT....
EXCEPT RELIGION. At a moderate Christian school, you
can talk about ANYTHING YOU WANT....now that's freedom.

A good example, from Computer Science....Blaise Pascal,
a 16th century French mathematician, physicist, engineer,
and inventor. A computer language was named for him.
He's considered a "father of statistics". He made great
discoveries in the study of water pressure/hydraulic systems,
and "the Pascal" is an old measure of pressure (or some such).

Yet when teaching at State U, I have to finish the story there.
I can't talk about how he had a deep religious conversion,
dropped science and math, and became a theologian and
philosopher, and how he applied mathematical principles
to faith (look up "Pascal's Wager" or "Pascal's Bet"....in
addition to "Pascal's Triangle") Just an example.

Students at the above-mentioned colleges have "rules"
that may be only slightly more strict than State-U:
no alcohol on campus (though students have it anyway)
(but many State U's are adopting this now),
a religion course or 2 may be required for
all students (definitely not sunday school....sometimes
taught by "heretics" in clerical circles), and chapel attendance
might be required once a week or once a month.

So just to let you know, there is a VAST RANGE of
"campus atomosphere" and "rules" at private religious
colleges...and they are not all the "nightmare" some
would say BJU is.

my 2cc
Kevin
Lambda Chi Alpha
....oh, and also a Catholic who used to be Baptist
(you think they would burnt me at the stake for THAT!)

You obviously have never been to the art gallery itself. If you had, you would know that you are given a very detailed guide and posted beside each painting is the artist, date, and origin of the work. Why don't you check out their website... http://www.bjumg.org/, you might learn something.

You might want to check your Scripture... The Bible does not say that a woman must submit to a man, but that a WIFE should submit to her HUSBAND. The whole dress thing is more about modesty than anything.

same difference

btw, what GLO are you in?

I don't think so. No woman should have to submit to a man. The Bible only references marriage.

Not sure what a GLO is....

News flash. Wife = woman. Husband = man. At least where I come from.....

Lol, if you don't know what a GLO (greek-letter-organization) is then what are you doing on this site?

Not all women I know are wives- Not all men I know are husbands...

I am actually an '02 alum of BJU- just happened upon the site and found it interesting.

wow, I just got a flashback to Intro to Logic freshman year....

You said that "No woman should have to submit to a man."

All wives are women. All husbands are men.

Therefore no wives should have to submit to their husbands.