If this really bothers you, maybe you should talk to your sister, and the other SigIPhi alumnae and sort out a group feeling on it. Maybe you should introduce something to your chapter or maybe lay it all to rest, but talking about it with them might help more. You sound pretty upset about it, you don't want this to come between you and a friend.

I agree...

Mr. elizlang_ast is a GLO member and we have mutually agreed that the respect that we have for our own (as well as the other's) organization will never lead to...

Mr. elizlang_ast: If you tell me what the anchor means, I'll tell you what XYZ means...

elizlang_ast: OK, great! The anchor is used to make sure we all stay underwater during initiation...

We have both overheard things about the other's rituals from "blabbermouth" members, but neither of us even questioned the other about it...

Anyway, back to the original topic (kind of)... quite a few NPC chapters were, at one time, local sororities. Many AST chapters teach their local heritage to the NMs, but I'm not sure about the rituals and whether they were allowed to stay... Any other GLO's have the same situation?

Every ASA chapter - regardless of their origin - should be doing the exact same ritual. Nothing added or subtracted, no additional rituals, etc. I'm talking members only things, not a sweetheart ceremony or a senior ceremony. Those aren't ritual (as evidenced by the fact that we've had sweetheart ceremonies at formals).

However, I believe it's vitally important that every NPC chapter know their local history (whatever it is) and I think that teaching it should be mandatory.

While as a Local, We did not have a Ritual. I did not get around to making one. We were Associated with LXA at the end of the school year.

Ergo, no Ritual to worry about.

But, in 1939, Theta Kappa Nu and Lambda Chi Alpha merged, the largest merger in Greek History came about.

Through this meger, many things were incorporated into the:

1 Coat of Arms.

2. The Pledge ( New Associate) Pin.

3. The Ritual.

4. The New Associate Ritual. LXA has two, one open and one closed.

But, to each of us as a Brother to my knoledge hold our secrets.

Of course, I can only speak for myself.:)

Ditto. isht hit the fan when we even asked if we could tell the new pledges what TNKK stood for.

I didn't get to read all 9 pages (sorry) but as part of a local that went national, I would never dream of telling anyone about my local traditions. In some ways, I put them "higher" then Tri Delta because they are *mine* and not something that other women on other campuses know as well; it is only something that about 50 women will ever know (please note: i'm not gonna run around telling tri delta secrets; its just that i would also never share what my local traditions with other tri delts. i mean, i didn't even tell my little sister because she wasn't in the local. am i making any sense?)

Well, lordy girl....did you have to go tellin' everybody?

:D

Hubby and I haven't shared any secrets, but he has assured me that a certain website that was spilling his secrets didn't have it right.....

PsychTau

Bwahaha. This gets post of the year!

WOW! That's what we use the anchor for too!!!! :p :D

I'm sorry I don't have time to read this entire thread, however would add this one thing.

Some years ago, Delt merged with "The Rainbow Fraternity," that had several chapters in the South where we were somewhat weak at the time.

In what I think is a very nice lasting tribute, we have a pre-initiation ceremony (which is not secret) called The Rite of Iris which is largely based on the Rainbow Fraternity Ritual. This is NOT our pledge ceremony, by the way.

I agree with most -- a secret is a secret and should be kept.

SO I still want to know if you would be happy with your doctor telling her husband or wife that you got a prozac prescription ? ...Just wondering...

really your situation is different because she was telling stuff about a defunct GLO... so that is a difference.

Personally I don't think it matters whether or not the GLO in question is still in existance.

Someone earlier in the post said it didn't matter about keeping the secrets of something that was no longer a functioning chapter...in a hypothetical world, let's pretend our GLOs as they exist NOW (national, international,local, whatever) went defunct. Would you still consider it OK to tell other people things you cherished with your fraternity brothers/sororitiy sisters?

Alpha Alpha Chapter of Alpha Sigma Phi Fraternity at the University of Oklahoma first began life as Delta Kappa Rho local fraternity in 1920, originally with the intent of colonizing as a chapter of Delta Kappa Epsilon. However, Delta Kappa Epsilon turned down their petition, as they did not want to expand that far west at the time. They later petitioned Phi Kappa Sigma, but were also turned down (their Omicron chapter was later founded at OU in 1928).

In 1923, Delta Kappa Rho successfully petitioned Alpha Sigma Phi, and was installed as Alpha Alpha chapter on May 19, 1923. Having fulfilled its purposes to become a chartered chapter of a national fraternity, the members of Delta Kappa Rho chose to reveal the meaning of their Greek letters to the public: they were the Greek initials of the English phrase "Death Keeps [its] Rewards".

Unfortunately, a fire in 1924 at the first chapter house on Apache Street in Norman burned most of the records of Delta Kappa Rho; a banner of the fraternity was preserved but went missing in 1986, possibly in the possession of an alumnus. All the original charter members of Alpha Alpha chapter who were members of Delta Kappa Rho have since entered Omega Chapter.

In practice, this happens constantly. I'm the daughter, sister, and sister-in-law of doctors, and while names are not named, plenty gets discussed around the dinner table.

I don't dispute that breaking vows is wrong; I do take some issue with the black-and-white view that all wrongs are equal. Frankly, concern about this kind of pillow talk isn't something that keeps me up nights, and I don't think it belongs in the same category as, say, publishing fraternity secrets in a bestselling book, or a CIA agent with security clearance telling a spouse state secrets (a comparison that was made upthread), or breaking a marriage vow by whoring it up on the side (another comparison that was made upthread). Yes, it's wrong to break a vow and tell your husband a secret, but in my book it's shoplifting wrong, not murder wrong. A lot of people here seem to think it's a crime worthy of capital punishment (and they'd be eager to throw the switch themselves).

In response to the argument that if you'll break one vow, you'll break them all, well, I don't see any support for that notion. We don't assume that people who break speed limits will all become serial killers because they just can't be trusted to obey any law. Everyone reading this forum has jaywalked/double-parked/drunk a beer at age 20 at some point in their lives because we just didn't think that particular law was terribly important. It doesn't make us potential murderers with contempt for the law in general. And whispering a sorority secret to your husband doesn't make you Ethel Rosenberg.

That's what's important, though - "names are not named." In the case of revealing GLO secrets, it's not as if a Greek hubby can tell his wife "Hey, hon, I know a fraternity that wears fucshia catsuits and neon yellow feather boas in their initiation ritual - but I'm not going to tell you which one ..." Completely different than revealing an unnamed patient's information, even if it's "Guess which member of the city council got a refill on their Prozac today?"

And I seriously doubt that a medical licensing review board would accept "But we're married, so we share everything" as a valid excuse for revealing confidential patient information ... the same should go for revealing GLO secrets, whether defunct or active.

Unless the information were publicized, the review board simply wouldn't care. They're worried about the spirit of the law -- that is, whether patients are being publicly embarrassed -- rather than about the letter of the law -- that is, whether doctors are taking every secret to the grave. I've never in my life read about a doctor being punished for sharing confidential information with a spouse, even though it happens around ten thousand dinner tables every night. (And by the way, sharing the info minus the names is just as much against the ethics rules.)

IvySpice=the voice of reason

The one vow I'd like to see us all keep is the one where we promise to pay our alumnae dues (if such a program exists in your GLO). How soon many forget....:(

i think you got a right to be upset ... even though you are now part of a national your vows to the first should be upheld

secrets?
 

Well, I don't know how many of you actually know this, but my fraternity, DELTA UPSILON is the first, the only NON-SECRET fraternal organization in existence. We're proud of what we stand, henceforth we are open with anyone who wants to know about us. If you don't believe me, just ask, and I will tell you what you want to know.

Re: secrets?
 

I'd beg to differ about that. Don't know your founding year, but you're certainly not the ONLY non-secret fraternal organization. That's not true. There are many fraternal organizations that are not secretive. Phi Alpha Delta, of which I am a member, is not secretive, initiation is open to the publich, etc.

You may wish to quantify that with saying social fraternal, perhaps, but even then, I could pretty much guarantee that there's a local or regional out there that is non-secret.

Re: Re: Secrets?
 

Let me specify: the first, the only, NON-SECRET National Interfraternal Council organization. We're actually an International fraternity, but amongst all (inter)national fraternities in North America, we're the only non-secret.

Re: Re: Re: Secrets?
 

You should be specific. The first way you stated what you wanted to say it was blatently false. What you restated was true. It's one thing to be proud of your GLO, but don't make claims that aren't true :)

I have to disagree with this. My chapter of Pi Beta Phi was once a local sorority. While the ritual and constitution of our local are no longer used. The local is still part of our history, and out of respect for our history and our former traditions it is not right to share any scret information withoutside members. That means members who were initiated into the local do not share secrets with other. Our chapter to learns about our history and that history is also part of what binds us together. But there is no reason to learn about the rituals.

True, and I think we're talking about two different things here. If a doctor wants to tell their husband or wife something about the day, a patient, whatever; it's not as big a deal legally as if he's shouting it across the hospital. Is he or she supposed to? No. Will he automatically lose his license for the first example? Not unless his wife is telling everyone around town.

Ritual is just different - there are no laws, just the trust that your brother or sister won't share the information with someone who is not a brother or sister.

As a future doctor and (hopefully) sorority sister, I would reveal neither secrets in confidence, patient's medical history nor our ritual to my husband.

Holy random bump.

I think I'd write them down, seal the envelope, give it to my lawyer and only permit it to be unsealed if someone researched and wanted to restart the org.

Delta Sigma Theta has hundreds of thousands of collegiate and alumnae members and will not be defunct until the world explodes. :)

So, I'll try to put myself in the position of an organization that is less awesome than DST:

Is this a defunct organization that is expected to die with its last member? Were we not bringing in new members for a few years? Did we not plan ahead for this stuff? If so then I would expect it to die with its last member.

On another note, almost all rituals are written at some point, even the things that are never supposed to be written down. If I have organizational documents and don't give instructions on what to do with those remnants after I die, I would expect my family to shred the documents. What else is there to do with these documents? If someone ever hears about my organization and wants to bring it back to life, they will have to find whatever they find on their own and essentially re-found and re-invent everything.

Let it die, shout it from the rooftops, whatever. In the end, ritual is not what make an organization, but the people in it.

Rituals are a side effect of a close bond. If you had nothing to do with it, then you have nothing to do with the ritual.

If I was the last member of a dying organization, the ritual dies with me. It's just kind of like actual shared secrets between very close friends. If everything about it is dead, it is dead, period.

As for sharing stuff with your SO -- well, you wouldn't tell your brothers/sisters your SOs deepest secrets, so why would you tell your SO your fraternity/sorority's most sacred secrets?

This one has me really torn. The archivist in me would want to preserve the ritual for others to read far into the future. I love Kappa Delta's ritual and I would be sad that something so beautiful would be gone forever.

BUT, if KD really decided to pack it in and I ended up the last KD alive I honestly don't think I would breathe a word of it to anyone. The sister in me says to keep my vows.