Re: My 73 cents
 

Are you suggesting that Black issues and Christian issues are mutually exclusive?

Re: Re: My 73 cents
 

No, but simply put:

Black issues are often merely symptoms of Christian issues (or lack thereof). So rather than treat the symptoms (Black issues), I seek the cure the root causes (Christian issues). Ephesians 6:12 says it all.

Hope this helps

Re: My 73 cents
 

Amen Amen Amen!!!!!!!

Good lawd! Is there ONE black person that isn't completely blinded by the promise to focus black issues (in which I think are usually empty promises) or appeals to religion when it comes to politics??? Damn, I don't see anything wrong with having passion for those, but I strongly believe that neither party gives a damn about black issues. Same with religion, I don't believe that either party is any more moral than the other. Both have serious flaws when it comes to morality, it just shows up in different ways. I just don't see how these two issues can dictate on how one votes.

I'm also an independent. Neither party really appeals to me at this point in time, as a pro-business moderate person.

Re: My 73 cents
 

Are you really taking the talk of "Canadian defections" seriously?

Re: Re: My 73 cents
 

Let's just say the Vietnam War draft dodgers did.

Re: My 73 cents
 

And exactly how is he going to do this?

What plans do Bush have to "turn this country around"? And is this event to be one that will benefit all American citizens of all races, faiths, etc?

How can a professed christian be against abortion, but for the death penalty?

How can a professed christian support a war against people that have done nothing to warrant such war?

Can someone please define morals to me because mine doesn't mirror Bush's definition. I don't perceive Bush to me this upstanding moral individual. Someone please enlighten me.

Re: Re: My 73 cents
 

Every person I've asked couldn't answer. Bush banning gay marriages in an effort to maintain or bring back morality doesn't stop homosexuals from dating, sexing, or having kids. They will still exist among us and their kids still attend the same schools your kids attend. But it doesn't matter because at least in some way shape or form you've looked to the government to be your/our "savior".

It's quite easy to see why many "Christians" voted for Bush. We've got priests molesting boys who are still accepted in the church. We've got pastors embezzling money, sleeping with church members while the whole congregation knows, or endorsing stars like the Pied Piper of R& B who lures girls with his magical flute talking about You Saved Me and So Sexy. Moral leaders are quickly given the forgiveness card.

I'm glad Bush won. I want every soldier and innocent who died in this sham war to be on this Christian's tab when his day comes. I have faith knowing he'll get what he deserves for trying to play God. It would be a shame if those who followed this false prophet also bore some of the blame, but oh well that’s what you get for following the devil.

As the shepherd (read: leader) of this nation, comes a sense of insight and foresight.

The shepherd can see further than the sheep can.

Granted, you may not see the plight of our nation the same way Bush can, but I trust indeed that he does have a strong positive vision for America. Naive? Perhaps. But compared to the apocalyptic "doom and gloom" predictions I have been hearing, it is by far the lesser of two evils.

Stand your ground bro. ;)

Re: Re: My 73 cents
 

Through our prayers for him, not our criticism.

Then, wait and see.

Re: Re: Re: My 73 cents
 

So you are referring to when the draft is reinstated, not folx leaving just because Bush won?

Well just like I applauded the conscientious objectors who went to Canada during Vietnam, I will applaud those who go when the draft is reinstated. And welcome them when they return. After all by definition a conscientious objector is one who objects to war on moral or religious principles. So they went to Canada to avoid jail. Nothing wrong with that, imho.

BTW, are you military? If not do you plan to enlist?

Re: My 73 cents
 

I think the whole idea that any politician represents moral values is flawed. No one should look to government, especially politicians, for moral guidance. Morality is an individual issue. It (IMHO) should be shaped by upbringing and experiences, not some politician dictating to an entire country what he thinks is right and wrong. IMHO its irresponsible to think that George Bush's percieved "morality" will save this country. Morality doesn't win needless wars, morality doesn't create jobs, morality doesn't balance the budget; intelligence and proper planning accomplish these things and "Dubya" is quite lacking in both areas.

But back to my original point, a politician shouldn't dictate how individuals live their lives. Would I ever want an abortion? NO. Would I ever want to marry another woman? NO. Do I need George Bush to tell me this? Nope! But hey that's just my .02 cents...take it or leave it.

What is the world coming to when an entire country looks to a former drunken cokehead for moral guidance?

Re: Re: My 73 cents
 

The same thing they were looking for when they looked to the sex addicted adulturous lying crocked in business weedhead ;)

Re: Re: Re: My 73 cents
 

I assume you mean Clinton. But we weren't looking to him for moral guidance and he didn't run on that platform. But then you could be talking about FDR, JFK, and numerous other presidents--dems and repubs (minus the weedhead reference--or maybe not.)

The post was a joke inference to the previous one like it.

Let's remember that morals wasn't the foundation of Bush's campaign. That's something the Press came out with after it was over to lets be real, stir-up something and give a reason for Bush's win. And I highly doubt anybody that voted for him is looking for moral guidance from him just because they might have the some of the same moral values. You have church for that.
He doesnt show his intelligence all that well but I will give him credit where its due, and there are two things that I like about him....

Determination/Not backing down (may not always be used in the best of ways, but rather have someone stick to a belief then be all over the board with it)

and....

To a point keeping it real.

He has recognized, while he doesnt necessarily regret some of the actions that he has taken, that things could have been handled different.
As to him being a cokehead and alcoholic., when the story broke about his DUI and drug problem he personally came out and admitted to his (past) problems without hesitation.
Plus.... he make fun of his lack of intelligence in areas.

So, its okay to be a drunk driving cokehead as long as you admit to it???:confused:

I'm sure all the people getting tipsy in clubs this weekend will be happy to know they can drive at 1.2 BAC and just "admit it."

I agree with just about everything you said..except finding moral guidance in the church..that is found only in the only person who never sinned..Jesus Christ. Man is and always will be fallable. And you're so right..the press/Dems/liberals and anyone that did NOT vote for Bush are trying to come up with reasons why Bush won..instead of looking to why they lost. If they keep this up..they will be on the losing end..again in 2008.

And as far as us looking to a cokehead drunk..or whatever someone said...its funny how "righteous" we come when judging people we don't necessarily like..and I can't speak for people..but I know I got some people in my family that used to be out there..smoking weed, drunks whatever..but when they turn their life around..that stuff is in the past...

Dems want to have it both ways..put Bush under a microscope..but let Clinton slide cause he kept it real...reason #52 why they just don't get it LOL

To use the tagline from the old Bartles & Jaymes commercials: Thank you for your support!

You've been a big help and have made my posts worthwhile. ;)

Re: Re: Re: Re: My 73 cents
 

All of the above.

Quote:

BTW, are you military? If not do you plan to enlist?

Well, if you count the three year stint I served as an Air Force Junior ROTC cadet military (1988-91), then the answer is/was yes.

Do I plan to enlist? Not anytime soon. Anyway, if I did join the military, I would probably be an officer, not an enlisted person.

Excellent points, UMgirl! Very well said!

To reinforce UMgirl's points, Christian morality/values is not now nor has it ever been a political platform of George W. Bush. Rather, it was something that he as a person represents and that a lot of Americans just so happened to have sought after in a leader of a morally declining nation. To that regard, Americans found Bush to be a custom-made fit for the job of the presidency.

The other factors that were in his favor for re-election was, as UMgirl indicated, was his ability to stand firm on his beliefs and not crack under pressure, and his humility to own up to his faults, inadequacies, and even his eccentricities, something Clinton failed to do.

I am sure that no American sees eye-to-eye on Bush on every single issue, but then again, they were not looking for a perfect president, just one who holds himself accountable to the American people, which Bush has managed to do rather well.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: My 73 cents
 

Ummmmmmmmmm- no. MAYBE if you had said ROTC, like in college then I would count that as enlisted RESERVE service (even that is pushing it), but JROTC....no.

As someone about to marry a commisioned Naval Officer, I almost find it an insult to compare JROTC in high school to enlisted or commisioned service and what this brave and dedicated men and women are doing everyday.

ETA: I have a question to the Bush supporters. I am a Christian and appreciate George W. Bush for proudly professing his faith. However, whenever I try to seriously consider Pres. Bush I am troubled by a few things:

1. I simply don't see him exhibiting Christ's love. Like, I don't see him caring for poor people. In what ways do you feel he does this?

2. I see him as fundamentally dishonest. It seems Pres. Bush completely changed who he is when he became Pres. I am a TX resident (right now I am in law school in DC) and observed Bush as Governon of TX. As Governor of TX he was no where near as dumb-appearing as he is now. I personally feel he changed when he reached the national level to make himself appear more "common" and less NE blue blood which he really is. That is okay, but I feel, deceitful. How do you reconcile this?

I am truly curious. I personally think Bush is brilliant. His total intelligence switch was pure genius and I believe that everytime someone calls him dumb he and Carl Rove (the evil genius) are in the back cracking up. But at times, I feel that such behavior does more to hurt Christianity than to bolster it. I don't really care about Bush and his drugs/alcohol as I didn't really care about Marion Berry or Clinton- I just earlier found it funny that someone was like "its okay, he admitted it!" I think we should all repent and have all fallen short of the glory of God, but I do feel when you profess your faith you become a beacon of light for believers and nonbelievers alike and I am worried that in turning his back on the poor and possibly manipulating the public into thinking he someone his not, he is doing more harm than good. Why doyou not feel this way? I truly want to evaluate my thoughts, so I am asking in humility and sincerity.

Who said it was ok? I never once said it was. My point was that he admitts he has faults and instead of having his people or Washington cover his stuff up (as probably a good majority of people would have done) he laid everything out on the table and I give him credit for doing so.

fair enough

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: My 73 cents
 

For the record, I said this with a facetious spirit. OTOH, while I am sorry that you find the comparison to be an insult, don't mock or belittle what I learned in JROTC just because it was during high school, because it strongly motivated me as far as striving in leadership, discipline, preparation for a military lifestyle, and yes, even in joining a fraternity. So while it didn't involve front line hand-to-hand combat with the enemy, it is by no means something that gives folk the right to piss on it or dismiss it as a trivial extra curricular activity either.

ETA: I have a question to the Bush supporters. I am a Christian and appreciate George W. Bush for proudly professing his faith. However, whenever I try to seriously consider Pres. Bush I am troubled by a few things:

1. I simply don't see him exhibiting Christ's love. Like, I don't see him caring for poor people. In what ways do you feel he does this?

Please elaborate on how you don't see him caring for poor people.

2. I see him as fundamentally dishonest. It seems Pres. Bush completely changed who he is when he became Pres. I am a TX resident (right now I am in law school in DC) and observed Bush as Governon of TX. As Governor of TX he was no where near as dumb-appearing as he is now. I personally feel he changed when he reached the national level to make himself appear more "common" and less NE blue blood which he really is. That is okay, but I feel, deceitful. How do you reconcile this?

Since I was never a Texas native, I cannot confidently comment on his leadership skills and abilities as governor. But that is a very good question to ask similar-minded fellow Texans.

I am truly curious. I personally think Bush is brilliant. His total intelligence switch was pure genius and I believe that everytime someone calls him dumb he and Carl Rove (the evil genius) are in the back cracking up. But at times, I feel that such behavior does more to hurt Christianity than to bolster it. I don't really care about Bush and his drugs/alcohol as I didn't really care about Marion Berry or Clinton- I just earlier found it funny that someone was like "its okay, he admitted it!" I think we should all repent and have all fallen short of the glory of God, but I do feel when you profess your faith you become a beacon of light for believers and nonbelievers alike and I am worried that in turning his back on the poor and possibly manipulating the public into thinking he someone his not, he is doing more harm than good. Why doyou not feel this way? I truly want to evaluate my thoughts, so I am asking in humility and sincerity.

Again, good question. I really don't know if he is "playing dumb", or if he just naturally possesses an innocent and naive demeanor. I certainly don't think he is trying to manipulate the American people though. I just think that Bush was more firm, direct, and level with Americans than Kerry was. While Kerry was a very good candidate, I don't think he would've brought the same moral and ethical values back to America that Bush's natural charisma is/was doing.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: My 73 cents
 

Whoa Nellly! Perhaps I spoke with too much zeal, when it comes to the military I often due. My bad! Didn't mean to mock, piss or dismiss. I think its great what you learned, just don't see it as military service or equivalient to military service.

I am glad it motivated you to do all those great things, but I do feel trying to equate it to active duty service is an insult. For the most part, you went home at night- you weren't miles away from your families missing birthdays, anniversaries or holidays- that is all. Its great what you learned, but its definitely not the same.

My 73 cents
 

Again, my comparison remarks were not to be taken seriously; it was done in a rather jovial manner. As far as it not being military service, I think the T in ROTC says it all: TRAINING, which is essentially what it was, and it did it well.

I apologize if I came off rather ornery, but ROTC, for what it was worth, was a teen experience I hold near and dear to my heart. Matter of fact, after I graduated, the instructors made me Chaplain Emeritus of the squadron (now group), which shows how dedicated I was to the unit.

But enough about that. Let's get back to Bush and how he's serving America...

http://pic17.picturetrail.com/VOL815...9/72787474.jpg

Makes one wonder...

Wait a minute, shouldn't Indiana and Ohio (THE swing state) be slave states then? :confused:

Other than that, interesting comparison

Colin Powell to resign as Sec'y of State

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...h/bush_cabinet

This is also an interesting comparison According to liberals, "Red" states are full of dumb people. Well they're also the most philanthropic states. In the list below Red states voted for Bush, Blue states voted for Kerry. The Generosity Index is compiled by Catalogue For Philanthropy http://www.catalogueforphilanthropy.....php?year=2004

http://www.glennbeck.com/news/11122004.shtml

Three others, including Rod Paige, to resign with Colin Powell

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ush_cabinet_20