ktsnake, thanks for posting all that. I'm just delighted I finally found a city worse than Milwaukee. ;)

No problem :D

I believe the quotes pertinent to the discussion are "Straight outta Compton, crazy mutha***** named Ice Cube" and "With so much drama in the LBC, it's kinda hard being Snoop D O double G."

That ends this public service lyrics quote. :)

co sign....what does any of this have to do with this offensive act?

what does any of this have to do with an NPHC organization throwing a "white trailer trash bash?" nothing.

the price of tea in china, i tell ya....

You yourself made a post about how your organization would never do something awful and offensive like that, so I was bringing up some awful and offensive things your organization has done that are a) worse and b) anti-fraternal.

Ktsnake, thanks for posting the information about your town. Now I can see why you say the things you say. If I lived in a town with less than 69,000 people (average number of people found daily on my college campus was larger than that), I guess I would have a different perception of the world, too. I would also venture to say that there aren't too many of "us minorities" running around Edmond, OK, either. However, if you have statistics on that to prove me wrong (which I'm sure you will try), I'd be happy to see them.

I'm not going to contribute to this thread any further, but let me be clear that it is not because you "won", Ktsnake. It's because you keep posting statistics, etc. that are useless and pointless. I never said Compton had no crime, but yet you felt the need to post all these stats to show everyone. You posted some song lyrics from the EIGHTIES. Why? I have no idea.

I hope that you stick to your choice to stay in Oklahoma, because you might get eaten alive by all the "evil people" here. Good luck to ya!

This has nothing to do with being PC, which I oppose adamantly. This is about STU-PI-DITY!!!!
You know, if they want to be racist that's fine and dandy, one more idiot in the world doesn't effect my day. But when they make such a public display people have a RIGHT to respond. If they couldn't take it perhaps they should have reconsidered this moronic display. If I walk around with a "Kill _" t-shirt should I be upset that I get jumped in the supermarket? I think not. One must take responsibility for his or her actions. If they couldn't deal with the criticism they shouldn't have done it in the first place. I know for DARN sure they didn't think people were just gonna say "Oh well, let's not be PC, let them do that." Uhhhh PLEASE

So we're thinking of summering in Hunts Point over in the Bronx. Anyone want a postcard?

-Rudey

like what? throwing a "white trash bash?" hazing activities are irrelevant to the issue at hand. you thought it would be funny if one of us did it, and i told you none of us would do it. so, again...what does this have to do with the issue at hand?

OK. Here's How To End Racism
 

OK. Here's how to end racism. If racism flows from the belief that your race is superior, then the answer is this: everyone should be made to watch episodes of "Cops". If you believe that white people/black people/brown people are superior, watch episode after episode of "Cops" and see the lowest, dumbest, most vile worthless human scum imaginable, in all colors. You can't bring yourself to believe that you actually crawled out of the same gene pool as that human debris.

Re: OK. Here's How To End Racism
 

Please tell me you're kidding?

Well, yes, but maybe not 100%.

Just checking to make sure but are you saying that the method in which they (and I'm assuming you have personally witnessed Iota Phi Theta doing this since you directed it toward starang) bring in new members is on the same level as someone showing up in blackface at a party? Not throwing out any accusations but just wondering? Cause the only organization that I'm familiar with doing duck walks at ANY POINT IN TIME IN THEIR history was my own and that's illegal now so again I say if you see it PLEASE report it.

I live in a town of 600,000 people. Do I get to play still? :rolleyes:

Well, they sure are men, so I hope they aren't Deltas... NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN IF IT GETS REPORTED. I'm not sure y'all understand that.

I think bringing in new members in that fashion is much more degrading than throwing a white trash bash or a pimp and ho party.

Actually, in our new litigious times and in an effort to protect themselves, most national headquarters WELCOME reports of violations of the intake process. I know campus politics delays things more often than it doesn't but if you are concerned with how new members are brought it you SHOULD say something to someone.

As for which is more damaging we'll have to agree to disagree. They are damaging in different ways I will say but from my perspective there's nothing funny, therefore fun, about having any function that degrades a group of people no matter what the group.

that's all fine and dandy, so nice try and changing the subject. again...what does any of this have to do with black face? not a damn thing.

ROFL too funny

like i said...the price of tea in china...

What do you mean "still"?

Freedom of Speech
Freedom of Expression

The Pikes did nothing wrong except perhaps act without thinking it through.

if you think it's ok...go to a black greek event with blackface on.

And let me know which one you are going to cause I wanna see it.

that would be a site to see, huh?

I said earlier in this thread, they simply made a stupid mistake, however it is neither illegal nor should they be punished.

As for me going to a black fraternity party with black face, I of course would not, not that BGLOs have parties here anyways.

You told ktsnake he couldn't play because he was from a small town. I live in the inner city so I want to know if my opinions still get to matter.

they didn't make a mistake..they knew exactly what they were doing.

As I stated I don't think they should have their chapter removed, but they DESERVE to be punished.
Stop with the mistake crap, it's a mistake if you fall down a flight of stairs and knock over an old lady. It's not a mistake if you sit in your room and paint your face Black.
To say this is a mistake is to say that the Pike's are mentally retarded, and even that would be insulting to the mentally ill. They knew what they were doing and deserve some type of punishment, PERIOD!-

I propose a punishment, bring them down to Louisiana......New Orleans perhaps, around the time of Bayou Classic, in Black face, that will be punishment enough, I know I'd be satisfied.

Guess what, I hate to break it to you but they deserve no punishment.

As for saying "wear blackface to random place and see what happens" great they got a rise out of you and guess what, what they are doing is not illegal, anyone laying a hand on them or anyone else IS.

If someone wants in uniform, blackjack boots and fly the swastika, then that is their right and is perfectly legal, now if someone else walks up, takes offense and punches said person, then that is illegal.

Freedom of expression and of speech applies to everything, not just when it is convienent for you or other racial minority groups.

I personally think that it was not an accident. They knew what they were doing. If it was an accident, then those boys are retarded. Should they be punished? It depend on the particular school and their national organization's policies. I do not know enough about the said policies, so I can't comment.

I do not agree with what these boys did at all. But from a constitutional standpoint, Colonist is right. Sadly.

Scary thought! Anyway, we all know what they did wasn't constitutionally illegal. So, everyone can stop trying to "explain" that aspect. Those of us with brains and souls are saying that something must be done to end this behavior. The fraternity is on campus only with permission from the university. All organizations are on campus by permission, and must abide by certain rules. For that matter, all students agree to abide by certain rules when they attend to a particular school. That is the issue!

If it's a public university, they have no business stepping in on free speech just because it is stupid and offensive. The university of course can pull recognition. However, it has been shown that groups that are not recognized by the university are even more of a liability than before, so administrators are careful about doing that sort of thing.

There's such a tendency to react and do whatever makes you feel better. However, that's not always legal or practical.

No one was physically injured here. No one's rights were infringed upon. If I had a nickel for every time someone around me did something that made me uncomfortable, I'd be a rich man. This righteous indignation by peope in no way associated with the event here is actually kind of silly.

College students, as a group, aren't much different from any other group. Some are bright, some not so. Some are considerate, some aren't. Some are hurtful, most not.

Many are in their own little fogged in world and have little idea what's going on in the bigger picture.

I don't know these guys or their background.

This topic comes up year after year. I find it difficult to believe that everyone who has been involved has hidden or overt racist issues.

I think that they just don't. Think, that is.

There are lots of groups on campus that I want removed now because I find their behavior unacceptable. None of them are private even.

-Rudey

Actually, from a constitutional standpoint Colonist is WRONG.
People should perhaps read the thing before they start spouting "Constitution".
Sure, we have Freedom of Speech, and Expression; but both "Freedoms" are conditional. For Example, there are these little things called "Fighting Words" not covered by the Freedom of Speech. Also, as far as Freedom of Expression, it was directly tied to religion in the Constitution, as it stands now it covers assembly etc. Also, in order to us a "Freedom of Expression" argument one must present a case in which his/her Expression did not infringe on another person's rights. Seeing as this little incident did indeed infringe and alienate, it is punishable.
Again, they can and will be punished. You don't like it too darn bad.

Blackface is not a fighting word.

Also, the burden would not be on the person being prosecuted to prove anything. It would be on the party trying to bring charges against them. Innocent until proven guilty. It would be the burden of the offended party to prove that this infringed on their rights. And it must be a VERY persuasive argument, as courts are very remiss to limit anyone's speech. It's not an impossible argument, but it would be very difficult, and would cost a good deal of money to litigate.

They should be punished. Absolutely. But the only people who can adequately do that is the GLO, which is a private organization that doesn't receive gov't funding. The school can't do much if it receives any gov't funding (which there are VERY few institutions that do not)- not to mention that the school can't really afford to deal with more lawsuits than necesary.

A quick search of GA federal and state cases reveals none that mention blackface. In cases outside of that jurisdiction, blackface is generally considered as nonverbal speech protected by the first amendment. That's just from a quick scan of Lexis.

For people who are really interested in this kind of subject, i'd really suggest seeing if your school offers a Freedom of Speech class.... during undergrad, it was offered through my school's communications department. There are also many constitutional based classes in poli sci and history departments. Or if you really want to put yourself through hell, go to law school
:)

I know Blackface isn't a fighting word, I was using that to say that Freedom of Speech isn't "definite". Yeah it will be a hard case to prove that their rights were infringed upon, but it can happen.

What law school do you go to?

University of Pittsburgh. I'm in my second year.