That wasn't aimed at you in particular. I'm switching between typing a report at work and typing on GC, so I may not make a lot of sense. :)

We have a stickied thread remininding PNMs to talk to their universities to get the specifics on their recuitment, too.

This just reminded me of a story from my rush. I heard from a friend that I was actually cut from her sorority because one of the sisters I talked with thought I was bragging about how smart I was. :rolleyes: I said I was a sophomore credit-wise because of AP credits, but it was only my first year and I was still going to be there for four years because of my program.

It goes to show you - rush really varies campus by campus and chapter by chapter.

Re: People who rush over and over and over again--don't they eventually get the hint?

I know someone who went through formal rush twice and informal once or twice. (I forget.) She eventually got a bid in the fall of her junior year through informal. She became a good sister.

Good question. I think it depends on the person and the campus. I believe, personally, if it were me, I would have rushed once and that would be the end of it. But maybe then trying informal?

Example: My friend tried to become a founding sister of XYZ when they colonized at my school. She was not invited. Ironically, she rushed the following fall and got a bid from them, becoming a member of their first pledge class!

And for seraphimsprite, I think you could have said that very same thing to someone else and they wouldn't have taken it as bragging. It just goes to show how people "hear" things.

I think unfortunately some don't. There is a girl at my school that has been through formal recruitment I think 2 times. She also goes to most of the informal parties for most of the sororities. She has not gotten a bid so far. She is a nice girl but very strange. She is a very outgoing person but she doesn't know what not to say. She talks to a stranger like she would talk to her best friend, ie. too much information. It was really sad last formal recruitment because we have a "rush the hill" where all the sororities gather at one dorm and the new members run to meet us. Well she was on one of the floors crying. I felt so bad for her but she just keeps puting her self through it. Maybe by some grace of god she will find a home but I just don't know if it will happen after all this time.

It's so awkward because obviously no one is going to TELL the person that they should stop rushing...and i think it varies, because i know girls who went through recruitment, didn't get a bid and then tried again and went where they wanted because they had experience and knew how to play the game better (game = conversation, making friends in each house, etc.).

i don't know if i could ever be like "Uhhhh, you probably don't want to rush again..."

I hate to hear statements like this because I know a wonderful girl who rushed formally three times, COB'd at two houses and interviewed for a new colony before finding her home.

Freshman year she really didn't know much about rush. (This was pre-Internet people!) She didn't have anyone write recs for her. Her brother's girlfriend told her that she was perfect and wouldn't have to worry one bit about getting her choice of houses. She was also told that as an ABC legacy, she would definitely be at the top of their list. Didn't happen. She did well with most of her top choices until being cut from all but one before pref - the one house where she just did not feel comfortable.

Later that fall, she interviewed for a new colony but was not invited even to their pref party. That spring she was asked to COB with two sororities - again no invites to pref.

Sophomore year she rushed again thinking she would have a better chance now that she had friends in some of the sororities. Unfortunately, although she was at the top of her class in high school, her freshman year grades hurt her going through rush again. This year she was cut from ALL houses right before pref.

In the middle of that year she ended up transferring to another school because her first school did not have the program she wanted and she wanted to closer to home as well. That's when I first met her and thought she was great. I was astounded that she was not already in a sorority because I thought she was definitely Greek material. She fit right in with my close group of friends which included girls from the top houses on campus.

I brought it up with her to see if she was going to rush in the fall and that's when she told me all of her crazy history with rush. Against much protest I convinced her to go through again. This time she had her grades up and had secured multiple recs for almost all houses. Although she didn't get her top choices - groups that take almost exclusively freshman - she did end up in a group that she fell in love with on the very first round of parties.

She was a huge asset to her sorority and they even begged her to stay longer and delay graduation so that she could hold office. I think it is a tragedy that she would have been deprived of this experience and that the girls in that chapter would not have been able to know her if she had just "got the hint."

Re: The girl who gave to much info: It's unfortunate, but some people are like that, especially if they're nervous and worried that there's nothing to talk about. I sometimes have the habit of doing that!!! :eek:

I'm not saying that is the reason why she can't get a bid. I am just saying that no one is going to give a bid to someone that talks about having gas and stuff like that. I can understand someone being outgoing but that is just rediculous. Sorry if this sounds mean but that's the way I feel.

You'd be suprised at what people will say...especially drunk. A local at my school has flat out told women that they'll never get a bid and not to bother aymore. It creates some ackwardness...but they do it. Some women get the hint, some still don't. I also think it is pretty presumptive to tell someone that they'll NEVER get a bid. mixes change, and especially in small chapters, it can be the difference...

Agree: Not being remembered is probably the #1 reason, followed by a conflict with a current sister. We also worried that shy girls would not enjoy our tendency to be chatty and boisterous.

I was heavily cut, but it was my own fault. I rushed as a sophomore (the norm) and had made the mistake of running around with one of the wildest boys on campus freshman year. I wasn't wild, but was cut by the sororities of all the girls he had dated and by those who found his behavior horrifying. Still painful, even though I knew why I had been cut.

(Two years later I made the mistake of hooking up with him one more time. We left the club separately, and thought no one noticed. Next morning my best girlfriend called & yelled at me because she had heard about it in the ChiO bathroom. Called another friend, who chewed me out because she had heard about it in the TriDelt bathroom. Forget the ASAs - they just gave me that "what a disappointment" head shake at lunch. Thought I'd be safe at dinner with the studious, non-clubbing KKGs, and one asked if that wasn't Mr. Player I had been dancing with last night. That's when I realized that at 35,000+ students, Penn State was way too small a school.)

Sometimes, perserverance is the key:

Fall seven times, stand up eight. ~Japanese Proverb

That's kind of sad that these people had nothing better to talk about than your business.

I know why I didn't make it in the fall of my freshman year- I was a completely snobby brat! When I tried to rush in the spring I noticed that the sororities already knew who they wanted, and it wasn't me.

So here's a tip to PNMs: Cocky, snobby brats will get cut!

No, I understood - it was my own fault, and by that time, I knew better. He was such an appalling Casanova and notorious trouble-maker that stories about his escapades provided us with hours of entertainment - throw out his name, and everyone had an story. I was once at a cafeteria table with 7 girls from another sorority when his name came up. Someone said "Well, you have to admit he's a good kisser." Sadly, every girl at the table agreed, all speaking from experience. I think every Greek system has some of those people whose exploits can be hauled out for amusement when the conversation flags......

<sorry for the hijack - back to our regularly scheduled thread>

One problem with cutting "snobby" girls is that sometimes the painfully shy or kindhearted-but-very-reserved get thrown out with the bathwater, so to speak. (I know you're talking about the obviously awful, but it pays to be careful)

Actually, yes, I was the girl who went from AB to CD and said "They're so stupid!" and then went to XYZ and told them at AB were idiots. All too late (like 3 months) did I realize what a complete jerk I was.

On rushing again:

I think that before you go through rush a second time, you need to stop and look at your FR experience.

There have been years on my campus where FR just didn't work the way it was supposed to: many bidless PNM's, many chapters below quota (usually it involves chapters' return rates varying drastically from their three-year average that was used to compute the number of invitations they can extend, but this could be a whole separate thread). This can be a cue that you should try again for COB or FR.

Or maybe you got a lot of invites in the early rounds, and were able to decline a lot of them, only to be cut in later rounds. Is it possible that one of those houses you cut earlier may have been a better fit? Are you willing to seriously look at houses that you did not return to after one or two rounds based on YOUR choices? Again, a good reason to COB or try FR again.

Or maybe you had something that you KNOW was working against you, like lousy grades, or no recs at a school that emphasizes them. If you know of a concrete reason that put you at a disadvantage, and you have since eliminated it, go again.

On the other hand, you were an obnoxious PNM, or you trash-talked chapters, or you skipped parties to which you were invited. Well, here it gets trickier...People change, and an incoming freshman can learn a lot in her first year, but there is really no reason a sorority should give you the benefit of the doubt. The burden of proof lies with you, and you will not be able to change anyone's mind in one week, so you are wasting your time unless you have gotten to know sorority women on campus and they can really vouch for your character.

I'm the first to remind PNM's that you can be cut for VERY stupid reasons (such as name mix-ups) but what are the odds of that happening at every single chapter?

DeltaBetaBaby, that was such great advice!

Hear, hear!!

Seriously, about the name thing: I can think of at least two times when the wrong woman got the bid ("I thought she was the OTHER Jennifer!!!!"). Please, please, don't spell your name funky just to be noticed, but make it clear WHICH Jennifer, Amanda, or Carrie you are!!

And a big amen from the choir for that advice, DeltaBetaBaby.:)

good point DB.

Oh yes, posting objectionable/controversial stuff on Greek Chat will get you cut. More people read this board than you think? Lack of discretion will kill you before you even start rush...I think that has happened to more than a few PNMs on GC :(

Some will realize that hindsight is 20/20

At my University, 18 chapters participate in formal recruitment and around 1250-1300 PNMs spend 5 days trying to pick the best house for them. It's a rough time, and it's hard for both to remember every conversation.

When I went through rush, I was cut by my first-choice house, and my three prefs were great houses that were very strong on campus, but I still felt like I had been the most at home at Delta Gamma. I decided not to sign a bid card, and I ended up receiving a bid from DG when I rushed again as a sophomore. I felt comfortable enough when I pledged to ask some girls why I had not been invited to prefs there the first time, and they said it was simply that I had slipped through the cracks. At a large school, that's just what happens.

Interesting you mention this. Today at Bid Drop Guys were announcing their fraternity choice (its a very public process) and I saw the look of "oops" on a few brothers faces when a guy came to the microphone. The were all, "Shit. We completely forgot about him. We wouldda bidded him."

BTW: What about the possibility of a sorority knowing their personality and knowing or sensing that a girl just wouldnt fit in or feel comfortable. Wouldnt that be an option? I'd think so.

I could see this being an issue if a house had a particular "personality," but I feel like at my school it breaks down more to types of involvement. We require members of our sorority to be a member of at least 2 other campus groups and we strongly encourage holding leadership positions on campus and joining sport and performing groups that require an audition/tryout... therefore, we would not extend a bid to a woman who would only want to be a "sorority girl" and nothing further.

However, I think that a house that gives itself a "personality" generally limits itself and the experience of its members... I would not want all of my sisters to have the exact same personality, would you? :)

Sure, this is always a factor. However, I think James point in this thread was why you got dropped by EVERY house, not one or two where you really didn't fit.

Wouldn't some of it be a numbers game as well? Last year, nearly 400 girls started recruitment, and less than 250 actually received a bid. I find it hard to believe that in every instance of the 150 remaining, the girl was an insipid twit with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. We have an amazing girl going through with us right now who was dropped by every house. She's cute, has a 3.5 GPA, is very sweet, not shy, etc etc. Thank God for us that she was dropped - we love her.
We have a specific number in mind of how many new members we can handle this semester, and we've got nearly double that number PNMs. All of the girls fit our eligibility requirements, they're all absolutely adorable, very sweet, have good GPAs, etc. Because of numbers we've decided on, we have to cut some. Just because we cut them doesn't mean that we don't think they're great girls. I don't really know what else I wanted to say here, except that as a girl that was cut from all the houses, even if I do know why, even if I'm fine with it, this thread makes me feel horrible, and I wonder how much I'm looked down on because of being cut from every house.

I think we all know that being cut doesn't make you a bad person or give anyone the right to look down on you. You are Greek, and we would never look down on you for being cut initially. ;)

In a word, no. The college panhellenic sets quota, and I have never heard of an instance where a chapter participating in FR has voluntarily taken fewer NM's.

I would be willing to bet that a good percentage of those 150 either dropped out or didn't maximize their options.

Things not to say if you don't want to be drastically cut...
 

Of course, every chapter has its own rules and things, but these are general things a rushee could say to be cut from a large chapter at a large Southern school:

"My mom/sister/aunt/cousin/grandma was a [insert any sorority but the one you are visiting]." There is no reason to tell a woman from any sorority that you are a legacy elsewhere unless you're already planning to suicide that house.

"My mom made me go through rush." This makes us think you are not interested in Greek life at all, least of all in our house.

"I hate rush... I'm so tired/bored." We're tired, too! We're still having fun!

"I have lots of friends who are in other sororities." Many houses might view this as your indication that you're looking at those houses only.

"I'm planning to transfer/graduate early." Houses, especially ones at very Greek schools, have to keep numbers... they're not usually going to pledge someone who'll only be in the chapter for a couple of years. I graduated in 3 years, though, so I guess there's always an exception to the rule!

"I think I might use the pledge period as a trial period and make my decision by initiation." The chapter wants girls who want to be there, not girls who are unsure on bid day!

Rush being over, I thought we would revisit this thread.

Ah, James, but for us defferred crazies, the fun has only just begun!

May I just say this, because if I don't, I seriously think I'm going to go nuts. IF I EVER FIND OUT THAT A GIRL WAS CUT FROM MY SORORITY BECAUSE OF HER WEIGHT/APPEARANCE, I WILL DEACTIVATE AND WILL PERSONALLY MAKE SURE THAT THE ENTIRE CAMPUS KNOWS!!!!!

If that ever happens, I will seriously denounce my house because those are not the type of sisters I want. We should be about EMPOWERING women, being SUPPORTIVE, POSITIVE models of womanhood, not just skinny statues for people to look at. There is a reason that SERVICE is a huge tenant of sorority life, it's because you must SERVE, i.e. WORK. SERVE your fellow woman. Cutting a woman because of her weight is the farthest thing for sisterhood and for that sake, womanhood. As "women" we should be able to see the good in EVERY person.

And yeah, I'm plus sized, and NO I don't fucking care to ever be a size 2. And I have not one god damn problem with being in the "Fat Sorority" or the "Ugly Sorority" because I've got SISTERS WHO LOVE EACH OTHER.

PhoenixAzul, I think I love you.

Easy. i didn't get a bid because I am too much of a loser.

"What a man thinketh in his heart, so will he be." :rolleyes:

I rushed twice, in spring and fall. got cut from every house. Got cut from a COB the spring after I first rushed. Wasn't allowed to colonize in a new house. Something is obviously wrong with me.

What's that supposed to mean?