The victim in these kinds of situations (dead beat dads, crackwhore women...) is the child. My friend's little girl is going to grow up poisioned by her b**** of a mother about how awful he is, when in fact it was this woman who kept her daughter away from her father.

I know I sound harsh, but everytime he was told he could see his daughter and then the mother never showed up or backd out, I saw how much it hurt him. And I would hate for any parent to go through that.

Bumping.... with hopes of a RESPECTFUL conversation to ensue.

And since it's my thread, I ask that the word MURDERER be not used. Like I said in the first post of this thread, it's more for pro-choicers. If you want to post and be disrespectful, then please post elsewhere. And I ask that mods delete any posts that start to get rude.

We're all adults here, let's not act like high school girls fighting over a boy.

Oh yeah and one more thing.....

keep religion out of this thread from here forth

For some, that's tough, no, impossible. Because to them, their entire objection to abortion is based on their religious principles. You're asking people to discuss something with you, but withold their reasons for disagreeing.

I have to agree with you.

The only "non-religious" thing I can add about abortion is that I've known more than one woman who has had multiple abortions and found that she was sterile once it came time that she wanted children.

I don't think the pro-life folks would let you get away with that :D

It's not going to be much of a thread without the otherside..

Unfortunately I have come to believe that there cannot be a civil debate about contoversial issues on GC.
In the end it all turns to name calling and flame wars.

So debate all you want, just don't expect it to be civil.

Ok I guess my question is now then...

For those who are pro-choice, are you totally completely pro-choice or pro-choice with exceptions? Please describe. ;)

I'm totally and completely pro-choice. I'll bet you $5 that I'm the only one on this site. ;)

Nope. Hope you got $5.

I'm totally pro-choice. I don't think my values (or anybody else's) should be imposed on all women everywhere. I try very hard not to judge others.

My ex-husband was totally pro-life. He believes that he doesn't know anybody who has ever had an abortion. In fact, he doesn't know that some of his buddies' wives have had them, both before and during their marriages.

This poses an interesting question though... how many women do you know personally who have had abortions? I have had four close friends have abortions that I know of. Tons of my patients when I worked in psych had abortions, but I won't count them. So, of the women who have confided in me, who I considered close friends at the time, I know five.

Dee

I one woman who had an abortion -- my former best friend. I went with her to the clinic the first time...I say first time because she ended up having three (she's not my former best friend because of that).

I'm sure I know more women who've had abortions, but it just doesn't seem to come up in conversation very often.

One of my best friends in college had an abortion. I know I've mentioned this before. She was in a VERY abusive relationship, where he abused her in every conceivable way. On top of that, she is severely diabetic and had been told earlier that she shouldn't have children. No one can tell me that she should have kept that baby. No one at all.

I think that it's a personal choice.

I knew an extremely anti-abortion couple who changed their opinion after the woman was a few days late. Fortunately, she was only late, not pregnant.

Some nutcase will say that she should keep it even if it means dying. People like that make having an intelligent debate difficult. I'm sorry that your friend was in such an awful situation. I hope she got out of it!
Like I've said before, I seriously doubt I'd ever have an abortion. It doesn't jive with how I am. I just don't feel like anyone has the right to make that decision for someone else. If someone wants to have multiple abortions and then render themselves infertile, I have no problem with it, as long as I'm not footing the bill.

You know what's crazy -- multiple abortions don't always render one infertile. My friend of three abortions has a kid now.

Why didn't you break your friend's vagina?

-Rudey

She's such a freakshow I should have but she ran off with an abusive ex-cop dude with alleged mafia connections who threatened to harm me if I ever spoke with her again. I'm not kidding.

Well, I would call her lucky, but that might not necessarily be the case.

I bet the pig had a handle bar mustache.

-Rudey

I never saw him but I bet you're right. They live in Schiller Park, although you probably don't know where that is because it isn't down town, River North or Lincoln Park.

I am completely pro choice and also believe in limiting the number of kids one should be allowed to have.

It kind of ran rampant in my high school.
One girl in twelve years who carried a baby to term? Give me a break- this one girl in my grade had 6 by the time we graduated.

Were her parents taking her to get these abortions? Was she 18?

I'll take that $5 and think of you when I spent it, val. ;)

I'm writing this with a precious, cooing baby staring at me adoringly. SHE IS MY CHOICE. As much as I love her, I openly admit that there was a time in my life when, had I become pregnant, I probably would have not carried the child. I was neither emotionally or financially able to care for myself, let alone another person.

My best friend had an abortion when we were 19. She was immature and self possessed, and knew she wouldn't have been a good mother at that point in her life. I applauded her honest assessment of herself, and supported her wholeheartedly.

I'm a trained social worker. I've walked into homes where small children lived in filth, watching their parents mainline drugs, and were frequently sexually, physically, and emotionally abused. I've seen how it can f*ck up a kid. You know what? I'd rather see a mother have an abortion than expose a child to that kind of life.

Yes and no. The 'rents took her, she had them from soph. year to senior year.

LOL, I'm losing money left and right! ;)

Re: Abortion... please don't flame!
 

I was pregnant and four months along when I had a miscarriage which at that point was considered pre-term labor. I was already pretty sick and when I ended up at the hospital with a fever of 101+, the doctors wanted to do a D&C pretty much immediately. I refused because the baby still had a heartbeat. As my fever rose over 104, I became delirious but my parents were there to see that my choice would be carried out. They waited to see if the baby would be ok. The baby's heartbeat stopped as my fever increased even higher and I was immediately put into surgery. I was very sick after that, but I'm still alive. I absolutely refuse to have an abortion, no matter the cost.

However, I am pro-choice. Pro-choice does NOT mean pro-abortion.