I was indirectly trying to show you how porposterous your idea of gay being a genetic thing really sounds by asking questions with a mindset of your own.

I thought there was also a verse from Leviticus that the fundies often use to condemn homosexuality. I know that there are only two or three that are commonly cited.

No truth to it in 99.9% of Christianity. This is an old wives tale/urban legend that pops up on a regular basis.

There was a time when it was true in Mormonism, it is my understanding that that has been modified. There may also be certain independent sects that believe/practice this but they are in the very *small* minority.

Catholics get saddled with the stereotype because people spreading the stories have no clue about the theology behind certain moral stances. (See above post re: theology of what marriage is--once you understand the Catholic POV of what marriage is, the POV on the creation of life, sex, homosexual/bisexual behaviour, etc fall into place.)

Adrienne
:D

Per Sugar n Spice's request......
 

God specifically says that it is wrong and why (I posted some passages that specifically mention this earlier although there are more –PM me if you would liked them for further reading). Throughout the Bible, God also speaks about the relationship between man and woman specifically (how to treat each other, love one another, etc.).

As 33girl pointed out earlier, the first chapter of Romans and the book of Leviticus will give you insight regarding “clean and unclean” sexual practices (this is what they are referred to).

Genesis chapters 1-3 explains the intent of God (the creation of man and woman for each other)

And of course, there are the obvious anatomical differences between a man and a woman and how we are made to “fit” with on another). :D

I hope this is what you were looking for S~n~S.

http://www.geocities.com/smooth_velvett/homosex.html

this is just one study dome on the theory. it is valid, and there are references at the bottom you can check if you so desire.

http://ctruth.com/beliefs/blfhomo.html

this is a chrisitian website that condemns homoseuxality but still admits there is a gentic factor at work.

there are thousands of websites out there that agree with my beliefs, but i doubt that you will ever take the time to read them since you are so certain that i am wrong. i'm not sure how your "examples" were connected to my supposed mindset, but i'm not concerning myself with that. i have only been speaking from my personal experience with friends and relatives, and i tend to believe them when they say that they wouldn't chose the lifestyle they lead if it wasn't up to them.

this is the last time i am going to respond to you. i just wanted to let you know that. it is obvious that you will not agree with how i feel about the issue (which does not concern me whatsoever), and that you are so convinced you are right that you will not look at real people's lives and draw your basis from such. i am sorry that you feel the way you do. i wish that you would see that my stance on this issue is not preposterous, but unfortunately, even if every scientist in the world wrote an article defending my stance you would not believe it.

I would like to ask -- on the subject of the genetics of homosexuality -- if you could legitimately choose your sexuality, who in their right mind would choose to be gay? Considering all the things that they have to put up with and all the rights that they are denied, why would anyone choose to be not straight?

Thanks to everyone who pointed out Biblical passages; I am checking them out right now. :)

I'm sure there are plenty of websites that condem the theory of genetics playing a role in homosexuality as there are plenty that validate it. You can't believe all the stuff you read on the internet, it's kind of like GC- take it with a grain of salt.

I'm not trying to convice you of anything. I have no probelm with you thinking your dad didnt choose to be homosexual, thats all groovy if thats what you believe. But, don't try to convince others at the same time that it's genetic. You were the one who came at me with the "my dads not gay by choice" comments. All I said was that I don't believe in being "born" gay and you got all defensive, maybe it's because you'd feel wierd having a dad who chose penis over vagina....I don't know. Whatever the case is, maybe you've come to this understanding because your dad has implemented that train of thought into your head and you have since backed it up with weak evidence based on studies that have yet to be proven fact within the scientific community as a whole. We started our conversation talking about how same sex parents should not be allowed to adopt and raise children and you've turned this around into a total different debate. I don't know how I let it happen.

And, yes, I do understand where you are coming from. One of my best friends from High School has a gay dad. He found out his dad was gay when we were in 8th grade. Initially he took it pretty rough and got teased a lot. Eventually the teasing stopped and now he gets a long with his dad ok. His dad was married before and had a bad relationship with his mother. They got divorced. He asked his dad, "why Men?" His dad told him it was something he wanted to try, he tried it and liked it. Like my view, his dad doesn't believe in being born gay. His dad said it was spontaneous. Never before had he wanted to be with a man, it just happened and he liked it. Do I think his dad is fucked up in the head? Yes! I can't speak for most men, but being as I've never wanted to be with another man I surely wouldn't allow someone to poke me from behind just to see what it's like. Do I dislike his dad? No! He's very nice and takes care of his two sons.
He's a good father and I think he makes a fine dad. But, thats a scenario somewhat like your dad. Thats not the same as being raised by two men from birth, which is what we were originally talking about!

I'm not saying it's the case for everyone, but the one gay person I know freely admits that he chose to be gay. He says he gets more attention that way. So it does happen at least sometimes. Like I said, it's just one person, but it does happen sometimes.

OULioness

You seem like a nice person. You are really opening yourself to discuss the topic in a mature manner and providing a perspective that I, for one, appreciate. Don't bother arguing with the troll. Nothing will come of it. The discussion won't be fruitful. Hey I wonder if God wouldn't like that either?

Munchkin I am happy if you got a laugh out of it. I think I must give credit to Geroge Carlin on that one though, lol. He is the man.

This is an issue where I wish that we could all agree to disagree, but it curtails the BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS of fellow citizens. Hopefully the right to be a human being regardless of sexual orientation will win out over fundamentalism.

Last note: homosexuality being genetics or a choice ultimately does not matter. The point is that being gay is the right of homosexuals everywhere. If you choose to disapprove then it's simple, don't interact with gays and lesbians (although you will be doing yourself a disservice IMO but that is your choice) or do the whole bizarre hating the sin and loving the sinner bit (I have never understood how that works because you are effectively judging them and I thought that this also wasn't our "place"). Their right to a legal union should have nothing to do with your disapproval of their lifestyle.

Howdy
 

Howdy,

This thread is threatening to get out of control. Offensive posts and the posts that reference them have been deleted.

If your post is missing, it falls into one of the categories above.

It's possible to have a conversation without resorting to name calling, let's try to do that. We are all adults here.

ZA

Re: Per Sugar n Spice's request......
 

no worries dude - i just figured it was pretty clear what i was doing there, all good with me

So do chimpanzees, orangutans, and etc choose to be gay? Because homosexuality has been observed in other species, phyla, etc.

PS - you never sent me that club mix you spun out, dog

OK - Fair enough, but are you willing to pick and choose with literal translation? Because the Bible also describes a circle "... ten cubits across, and thirty cubits around" - apparently God doesn't use decimals to describe pi. I'm not trying to invalidate your religious beliefs, just asking if you're willing to take that leap - and if so, that's great, but we can't expect everyone else to (just as you ask in return).

This doesn't seem to be a really strong argument, to my mind - red wine with chicken isn't a sin, right?

Here is a portion of the Canadian Constiution (The 1982 Act, Charter of Rights and Freedoms) that will/is play(ing) a role in the legalization of same sex marriages in Canada.

I can't seem to find the actual article in the constitution regarding marriage.


http://lois.justice.gc.ca/fr/charte/charten_429x135.gif




Equality Rights
Equality before and under law and equal protection and benefit of law 15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.
Affirmative action programs (2) Subsection (1) does not preclude any law, program or activity that has as its object the amelioration of conditions of disadvantaged individuals or groups including those that are disadvantaged because of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.

Someone say genetics???
 

In my reading of Nature and Science the jury is still out on finding an exact gene or genes on a human chromosome that causes homosexuality... On that note, there is human "pseudohermaphroditism"--a human that has both male and female genitalia, but only one of them is functional... A full hermaphrodite could go "F" himself and get pregnant... (Just joking...)

On an Afrikan Centered note: There are two camps:

Dr. Laila O. Afrika says in a video that there is no such thing as homosexual sex, that it is just masterbation and a gay man is using another man to "get off"... He says gender roles are a Eurocentric concept and that many folks are spiritually off-kilter in pursuing their role in respects in their place in the Universe... That's what he says...

Whereas, Malidoma Some and his wife say that it one's sexuality does not only belong to him or her that is has to be expressed among the community. As I understand it, is that love is meant to be shared. That the expression of one's need for love that is experienced physically can be met without regard to gender...

This follows the Tantric principals that connects souls together in the broad Universe...

My question is:

Which one of you want to be married if gay marriage is legalized in the United States?

Some folks arguments are really passionate here... So, some nerves are being hit 'cuz they want something...

So who wants to be married?

Re: Someone say genetics???
 

This is beautiful :)

AKA_monet~ I really like the ideas you are bringing to this discussion. it's nice to have a different perspective on the argument. as for your question, i would like anyone and everyone to have the oppurtunity to marry, regardless of sexual orientation.

Do you support the right of Hindu's and Buddhists to worship?

If allowing homosexuals to marry is "supporting" homosexuality then allowing Buddhists and Hindu's to worship is supporting their religion...

And unless you are a extremely liberal Christian - their religions are totally against that Christians believe in (2nd commandment)...

Regarding other religions (others that do not belive in Christ being the Son of God), there are laws in place that protect ALL of our rights exist and to worship. That does not meant that I believe in the idealogy that is taught by other religions.

In my post that you quoted, I can not support the passage of this law, since in this instance, gay unions are not legalized and I am in a position to do something about it. Does that mean that if or when gay unions are legalized that I support it because it is "A LAW"? Obviously not.

Ok, this is my last post because I am getting tired of playing "Bait the Christian". My opinion and the reasons behind my opinion HAS NOT CHANGED! Seeing how I have already presented this information, for those who are truly wanting further references/passages/explanations, please PM me.

Honeykiss1974:

I'm sorry if you saw that as "bait"... but I'm just trying to understand your reasoning. Pretty well everyone I know is for gay marriage being law... so I'm just not used to people being so strongly against it. I do not see this discussion as one of "changing minds", but as one for us to understand one another's reasoning.

I suppose my comment comparing homosexuality to religion was flawed in the sense that in my country, it is unconstitutional to descriminate based on religion or sexual orientation. The United States does not have such a clause as of yet.

I have posted that clause in this thread - taken from the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedom

I've always wondered that myself.

Re: Someone say genetics???
 

I don't personally plan to marry a woman. But I do want my gay friends to be free to share in the same expressions of love as I am able to.

my question for this thread is this: is ANYONE trying to make ANYONE ELSE fully support this being passed? all i am trying to do is let my opinion be known on the subject, and perhaps enlighten (if i dare to use such a big strong word ;) ) someone else to see that as far as this topic goes, it's a choice. (warning, english majors....big fat long possible run-on ahead: ) not a choice to be gay or not to be gay, or to love what these ppl are doing, but a choice to let two ppl who, yeah, may not be living in the ways according to the Bible, but in a way that is not affecting anyone but themselves. this "act of homosexuality" or whatever is not (and should not, IMO) going to be punished under our laws, but in the end will be dealt with by the one person who should be dealing with it. no one is asking anyone to officiate over the ceremony or go to it or support it even.....just to let it be. you may not like it, God Himself may not even like it.....but they have the right to make their own choices or mistakes or whatever just as everyone has that God-given, America-given right. right?

Re: Re: Per Sugar n Spice's request......
 

Alriksson@hotmail.com


If you will, touch base.

against it.

Yes they should be allowed to get married, I think that in this day and age when we are supposed to be an accepting community its ridiculous that they can't get married.
Now obviously they can't be married in the church but in the eyes of the law they should be able to legalize their love for one another. I have plenty of gay friends and if they find that special someone that they want to spend the rest of their life with they should get married and perhaps even start a family. They are just as capable as everyone else.

Kelly

Re: Someone say genetics???
 

Me....but I was going to do it, legal or not.

Re: Someone say genetics???
 

I want to be married, but I'm in a heterosexual relationship. I just want my friends to be able to share their love in the same way, with the same legal and social protections we take for granted.

Human Rights Supporter
 

I believe in equality and support civil rights for ALL humans. Therefore, I fully support (any kind of) marriage. I'm caucasian and I married a Filipino. I don't believe in different degrees of racism. If you're against gay marriage, you're also against interracial marriage. Period. There's no "gray" area when it comes to racism.