WISH someone would tell this to MY campus. :( :(

To be fair, they just a lost a chapter there recently. So they're probably wanting to expand to replace the closed chapter as well as reduce the size of quota a bit. I doubt they're trying to create a "weak" group but add another strong one to the mix.

/I don't know the details there beyond the closed chapter

Many of those groups listed (mine included) are not prepared to take on a school like Bama. That's lots of $$$ and the smaller sororities just don't have those kind of resources. Not to mention the other resources needed (an expansion team, advisers, Leadership Consultants, etc). Although there are a couple on that list that would love to sink their claws in at Bama.

But the great thing about Central Florida recruitment is that while you may not get your Top 1 or Top 2 choice sorority, they make an extra effort to try and place every eligible woman with a bid. Keep an open mind and look for the chapter where you feel the most comfortable, and not necessary the 3 or 4 that all the PNM's are gushing over. Talk to the PNM's between parties but ignore the tent talk and rumors!

Bama - a campus with a history of multiple expansion:

1922 Chi Omega and Delta Zeta
1927 Alpha Xi Delta, Delta Phi Epsilon and Kappa Kappa Gamma
1932 Alpha Phi and Sigma Kappa
1967 Alpha Omicron Pi and Kappa Alpha Theta
1981 Phi Mu and Alpha Xi Delta
1988 Gamma Phi Beta

As for the NPCs not currently represented at Bama, several of them would be recolonizations, and that is looked upon favorably by many NPCs and panhellenics alike. The NPCs not currently active but with a Bama charter are:
Alpha Xi Delta (1927-1972 & 1981-1988)
Delta Phi Epsilon (1927-1973)
Alpha Phi (1932-1968)
Sigma Kappa (1932-1995)
Delta Gamma (1947-1978)
Alpha Epsilon Phi (1948-1967)

Not that Bama is open to expansion or anything.

Thanks for that list. I didn't know all that.

Phi Mu has been at Bama since 1931 (it's one of the so-called Old Row sororities).

If memory serves, Sigma Kappa recolonized the same year Gamma Phi Beta first came to campus (1988); not sure when they closed the first time.

Here's an update regarding possible expansion on the University of Alabama campus. I had the privellege of speaking with our NPC Area Advisor this past weekend and asked her since our Greek Advisor had been talking about it. According to her until the University can provide housing comparable to the other sororities, no group is seriously looking to expand here as it would simply be too expensive.

Personally I don't see this as being a high priority on the University's financial "To Do" list. I also suspect the University was hoping everyone would jump at the chance to come here with an open checkbook and pay for their own housing. So I'm not sure if/when it will happen, but hey you never know.

I’m not sure about other Southern schools, but at MTSU the sororities (and fraternities as well) are competitive when it comes to getting the new members with the best GPAs, most athletic ability (for intermural sports), and musical/dancing talent (for the annual All Sing competition), as well as girls who have pageant experience so they can win Homecoming Queen, Miss MTSU, and the sorority's name will be associated with them, etc.

It has been especially important in the last several years for the MTSU Greek chapters to maintain high overall GPAs and to be involved in plenty of charity work in order to maintain a good reputation with the faculty and non-Greek students. The intermural sports are pretty competitive, so PNMs who were on sports teams in high school or the community definitely have an advantage as well.

In a way, the sororities at MTSU have an advantage in that there are only 7 NPC organizations and often between 300 -500 PNMs (last time I was involved directly) at the start of rush, and only about half of those girls will get into a sorority, but all 7 still “fight” for the “best” girls.

There is also a factor to consider where sometimes the girls with the best GPA, sports involvement, etc, decide they won't have the time (or money - or both) to commit to a sorority, so everyone loses out then. It's all about trying to sell Greek Life in general as WELL as selling your own GLO.

Zillini, I hope you do check back. With all the building going on, especially in the stadium area, changes are probably afoot. I heard the other day that they're considering moving the CEMETERY for stadium expansion! Reconfiguring that area would mean re-doing sorority row, which would might make space for more groups. Although the cost of building a big house is almost prohibitive, not to mention the push to get in the "right" sorority. Still...I can dream!

I think your post brings up an interesting point, something I've said many a time here...perhaps we shouldn't be looking for the pre-made super sorority girl. The captain of everything, cured cancer at 12, debutante queen, beautiful and nice and legacy to everyone and a founder. Yes, those girls are great, and truth be told, they'll end up whereever they want under their own steam with little persuasion and be a real asset to their chapter...likely joiners.

But perhaps more energy/attention should be paid to the non-limelight girls. It's not that they are "worse" PNMs, but maybe are a first time college student, a first time rushee, from out of town and doesn't know about the Greek tradition...they may or may not have had a ton of time for sports and activities after school for various reasons (Family, work, etc). I think these girls can be a real asset to chapters, simply because they have more to gain from the sorority experience (leadership positions, group work, etc). The likely joiners will, 99% of the time, plow on to success with or without sorority life, but the non-limelight girls can use the sorority and Greek Life to their benefit and growth.

then again, Ive got no way to impliment this, and no suggestions other than "give the little guy a chance". Just something to think about.

Update
 

So at an advisor luncheon the other day, the Greek Life Advisor at Bama said that Bama would be looking to expand in 3-4 years, hopefully sooner, if the chapters on campus that were struggling to maintain membership continued to grow and strengthen number wise. He also said that they would want 2 sororities to come on.

Although the question still remains where to put the houses. Possibly behind sorority row in the parking lot? I don’t think there is any plan to expand the stadium any more right now. Apparently doing another end zone expansion would not allow the grass to get enough sun light so there would have to be a switch to turf (this tidbit is from the Alabama Football boards). I had also heard the rumor that AOPi and Theta houses would be torn with the next expansion, but I’m think that was just rumor.

Thanks for the update, Zzazbama. Yes, the crux will be WHERE 2 additional houses will go. I don't see the university footing the bill for building houses. Unless there is some change of philosophy - a smaller house with less overhead, or the university "kicking out" all the sororities to use the land for something else (right! in your dreams!!) and designating a different area for sorority row. Frankly, I think ALL the sororities are violating fire codes or something. How can they cram that many girls into a chapter room for chapter meetings?

Bama....wow!! We are one of the first sororities and now we are one of the ones off campus. Damn!! Hate this! Our sisterhood deserves to be regrown in Alabama soil. Why can't the Alabama alums push National to get digging and grow some Pink Kilarney Rosebuds neath the Birmingham sun?? Any 'Bama alums have any insights??

Alpha Xi from Kentucky..sisterhood forever beneath the Golden Quill

My understanding is that the housing/land situation plays a big part in it, as well as when a chapter leaves Bama, the stigma stays for a LONG time.

It's not a question of your national dragging its feet and the alums needing to push them, it's a question of what will fly at the school. If the HQ is afraid of losing a giant chunk of change by recolonizing there and the recolonization not being superduper successful, it's not gonna happen. They have to look out for the whole sorority.

Any new group that comes to Bama or LSU will have to do more than "OK" - they will have to do something that literally blows everyone else away.

I think they were referring to the main campus of the University of Alabama, which is not in Birmingham, but Tuscaloosa. Also, there were already 8 sororities at Bama by 1927 when Alpha Xi Delta, Kappa Kappa Gamma, and Delta Phi Epsilon all chartered there. Just pointing out that there were at least 8, maybe 9, before Alpha Xi and only 6 active chapters since, so they really weren't one of the first on campus - more like the middle. Alpha Xi just recolonized at Bama in 1981 and closed in 1988. Although 18 years seems like a long time, southern campuses have very long memories. Additionally, Bama has housing issues. Although it is a very desirable campus to have a chapter, it wouldn't be an easy task for any group. Maybe Alpha Xi retained its house at Bama? If it did, that would certainly make a return more plausible.

Gamma Phi Beta now occupies the old Alpha Xi Delta house, and has for quite a few years now. Don't know if they actually bought it, but I believe they did. 33Girl and irishpipes are right: a new group would have to have the biggest, most wonderful house and the most spectacular girls. It would be a multi-million dollar investment with only a slim chance of success.
A new group could possibly come on and occupy one of the university-owned Greek houses next to new fraternity row - on the opposite side of campus from sorority row - but they could never really compete.

Oops wrong thread

Legacies and Bid Night
 

I have a question about how bidding really works. My daughter is at a VERY competitive school and she was a legacy to Sorority A.
All through rush, she was invited back to her favorite houses, the maximum number possible, every day. After pref night she called and said that she would be happy at either Sorority A or Sorority B but that she had put Sorority B first on her card. Although I am a member of Sorority A, I encouraged her to follow her heart... no pressure from me... but of course I was a little disappointed...
Then, to her shock, she got a bid from Sorority A. Unfortunately ALL of her friends went to Sorority B so she was extremely hurt and disappointed and unhappy with being at Sorority A (I'm not saying this was a reasonable reaction... just that it happened.) She actually considered withdrawing from her pledge class and waiting until next year to rush again so that she could be Sorority B with her friends. I STRONGLY discouraged this. But SEVERAL older girls from Sorority B told her that they all had wanted her and if she had "suicided" Sorority B, she would have been Sorority B, instead of Sorority A... that she was IN Sorority A because she was a legacy and so was at the top of their list. Could that be true? Could that have really happened? or are they just trying to make excuses for having put her at the bottom of their list? :(

That's treading into Membership Selection territory, if you ask me. The girls in Sorority B should not be even going there with a non-member.

I don't think that's MS territory. It's bid matching territory.

I'll assume that your sorority (A) has a policy that if a legacy is carried to preference, she must be on the first bid list. Bid matching ALWAYS serves to give a PNM her first choice chapter unless her first choice chapter makes quota before reaching her name on their list, no matter how high a PNM is on her second or third choices' lists. Sorority B made quota before they reached your daughter's name. She was not high enough to get a bid. If she suicided Sorority B, she would have gone bidless.

Most likely the members of sorority B made the comments they did because they don't understand bid matching. There is no way of knowing where your daughter was. She could have been the next one or she could have been right at the bottom. Also, it is highly likely that the members of Sorority B did not see the bid list and do not know exactly where she was on the list. I doubt they were "making excuses" because if a PNM is on the bid list, the chapter likes her enough for her to be a member. They were probably saying those things to make her feel better. They probably legitimately did like her. However, no single person has control over membership selection. They can't promise your daughter that she would get a bid there next year.

Unless she totally hates Sorority A, it would be dumb to depledge to try her luck with Sorority B next year, IMO. She can still be friends with people in other chapters.

Yes, exactly. Suiciding would not have bumped your daughter up on Sorority B's bid list.


Just because your daughters friends all went to Sorority B shouldn't be a reason why your daughter leaves Sorority A (especially if she claimed she would be happy there). Your daughter should be able to find friends in Sorority A, while continuing the friendship with her Sorority B friends.

Again, some of this is private GLO membership selection stuff, some of it is bid matching, BUT, in reading your post, my assumption was that your daughter is not in Sorority B because she was not high enough on their bid list. And she likely matched with Sorority A because she is indeed a legacy, and as such, I assume, was on their first bid list.
The women from Sorority B should not be saying things like that for a number of reasons. First, because they really do not know where your daughter was on their bid list (or, at least, they certainly shouldn't) because they don't know how everyone else in their chapter voted. Also, of course, because MS is supposed to be private and not talked about after the fact. I'm sure the girls really did like your daughter, and maybe think they're helping by letting her know how well she did until MS, but it likely makes her feel worse, and think that she'd be able to withdraw from Sorority A and then try for Sorority B next year (BAD IDEA!!!).
In short, try to remind your daughter what she liked about Sorority A, that she can certainly stay friends with members in Sorority B, that she should get to know the women in her pledge class, and that she's really REALLY lucky to get to share her sorority with you! How exciting to be a Legacy!:)
Best of luck to you and your daughter.

What everyone else said. But just emphasizing AGAIN that probably only 1-2 people in the chapter see the final bid list - the President and Recruitment Chair, or other officers depending on the organization's structure.

Sororities have subgroups within them. Even if all of your daughter's friends in Sorority B ranked her #1 (or whatever), they have no idea what members outside their friend group did. At my chapter (and I have no problem saying this) we were required to be TOTALLY SILENT from the time the final preference night party finished until voting was finished for the night. We had NO IDEA what anyone else did. All that we knew for sure was that if any legacies attended pref night, they would be on our first bid list.

It bears being said one more time that #1 and #1 is an automatic match. If a PNM ranks a group first, and that group places her on the first bid list, she will be matched there.

So your daughter wasn't on Sorority B's first bid list. She was on Sorority A's first bid list, by virtue of being a legacy.

I will be B for Blunt. Sorority B for Bitchy is trying to make her feel B for Bad. She could have suicided them and been left high and dry. And I'm guessing they are quite well aware of that. Especially if both groups made quota & are t total.

She made the B for Best decision.

So why is she suddenly not happy with Sorority A? Because her friends aren't there? As someone else has already said, you should remind her of why she likes Sorority A.

And it might not seem like it now, but it will probably be a very positive thing for her to be in a sorority that doesn't include girls that are already her best friends. It will allow her to branch out and meet a bunch of new people. If you ask me, that was one of the best things about college... being involved in organizations and activities that include people that you probably would have never met otherwise, and then realizing how happy you are to have joined because of that.

Nice one! :)

Sorority Bid matching works by taking the PNM preference into consideration before the GLO's preference. From the outcome, one can assume that Sorority B's pledge class was filled before your daughter's name was reached, thus she was matched to sorority A.

It's just like the residency match! Lets say, I am applying for an internship, and I put #1 UCSF and #2 UCLA. Lets also say that both programs had 50 spots, and I am ranked #100 at UCSF and #2 at UCLA. If 50 spots are not filled at UCSF by the time my name is reached, I will be placed there. However, if the more than half of the first 100 people on UCSF's list all chose that place as #1, I will be placed at UCLA.

Using non-sorority terms may help to make the discussion less personal?

Bid Matching
 

Okay...I have a question. My little brother's girlfriend goes to school in Michigan. She asked me about this-and to be honest....I didn't have the answer. Maybe some of you will.

When she was able to rank Sorority A, Sorority B and Sorority C...she chose to do it like this:

1.) A
2.) B
3.) C

She ended up getting C. So, I get the idea that if Sorority A made quota before she was picked up by them-she would not get them but, my question is regarding Sorority B. If she ranked Sorority B second and Sorority C third, and then she got Sorority C-does that mean no matter what-she was going to be a member of Sorority C? She asked me if she had placed Sorority B in the slot for her #1 choice-whether or not she would have gotten a bid to Sorority B or whether or not they already filled their quota before it reached her on the list-so, she still would have ended up with her 3rd choice?

I don't know what to tell her and she's pretty upset. Because I have faith in all of the NPC orgs. I told her to really give Sorority C a chance because she doesn't know if it will be a perfect fit for her or not unless she sticks it out.

Had she placed it like this:
1.) B
2.) A
3.) C

Would she have ended up as a member of Sorority B? The fact that she ended up as a member of Sorority C...pretty much-I'm asking...Does that mean that no matter who she would have put first (either A or B), she would still have received a bid from Sorority C?

Sorry if this is long-any advice?

Maybe yes, maybe no. If quota were 50 and she was ranked #51 or more on Sorority B's list and Sorority B filled quota before reaching her number, then she wouldn't have gotten a bid from Sorority B regardless.

I hope she gives Sorority C a chance. Soon she may wonder why in the world she ranked it 3rd!

it wouldn't have mattered if she had put B in 1st or 2nd. Since the bid matching
moved all the way to her third choice, she never made it onto the first bid list of
either A or B. Both made quota before they reached her name.

Ditto above. She was not higher on A or B's lists than she was on C's thus she gets a C bid. Her rankings would not have made a difference.

Wait... are we sure?

OK, so let's say that Sorority A filled their quota with their entire first bid list (for the sake of argument). Everyone they put on their first bid list ranked them #1 (unlikely, but just for the example).

Sorority B only filled 3/4 of quota with their first bid list. Let's say quota was 100. They filled 75 places with their matches. They have 25 places left to fill.

OK, so once all the 1-1 matches have been made (you are automatically matched with a chapter if you rank it first and they put you on their first bid list).

The next thing the program tries to do, as I understand it, is match any PNM who ranked a chapter #1 with that chapter, assuming they are high enough on the bid list. Right? So if the PNM that's #101 on sorority B's bid list ranked them first, that's an automatic match. So on and so forth. Now, if the PNM that's #101 on sorority B's bid list ranked them third, that's NOT an automatic match at this point. Right? So they'd move on to see if the PNM who's #102 on the bid list ranked sorority B first. If she did, they'd match her. Only when they've exhausted people's #1 rankings do they start moving to #2 rankings. The PNMs get preference...

I really thought this was the way bid matching worked. Is it not?

You are right! The computer program (assuming that it's ICS which is what 99% of schools use) is set up to try and match each PNM with her #1 choice. That's what it goes by. It only moves to #2 choices when the #1 is no longer available.

OK! That's what I thought. So, in theory, if Sorority B had twenty-five spaces left after filling up from their first bid list, they would move down the list, matching everyone who ranked Sorority B #1... So in theory, if the friend in question had ranked Sorority B #1, there is a slight chance she might have ended up there over Sorority C... but there is no way we will ever know that. It all depends on where exactly Sorority B put her on THEIR list. If every girl from 101-125 on Sorority B's bid list ranked Sorority B #1, and the PNM was #126 on Sorority B's bid list, she STILL wouldn't have gotten Sorority B.

the way I understand it .. is that a PNMs preference is to be honored until it is clear that it can't be. So sorority A fills to quota with out reaching PNM, it goes to sorority B.
Sorority B is 3/4 to quota but she's still not on their first bid list. It continues to attempt to match her at B until B fills to quota. - as women match to other chapters they come off of B's first bid list and the spot is filled by the person next on their second bid list. Once you make it onto a chapter's first bid list, you stay there until you match elsewhere (because the PNM ranked that chapter higher) or you match to that chapter.

in this case since she was matched to sorority C, assuming that everything was done correctly, she never made it onto the first bid list of either A or B or she would have matched there, it doesn't matter which one was ranked first or second.

I think you are right that the PNM's choice takes priority. But I hate to think that PNM's are going to have to start thinking analytically when they pref! I stll think the fact that she was matched with her C choice tells me that she was not high on either A or B's lists. Also, in my experience, and depending on the strength of the chapter, those B lists are less reliably girls who pref that house #1. So, the placement is not as reliably cut and dried.
And, let's not forget the quota additions. Those always throw a monkey wrench in the works! :)

Bottom line - recruitment is a very strange animal, and trying to get a black and white answer to why something turned out like it did is almost impossible (particularly in the case of a PNM getting her third choice)

I find this to be highly unlikely. B was her second choice not third. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the chapters ranking does make a difference. They wouldn't fill an entire class with women lower on the list just because that woman didn't put that sorority first. Computers are able to adjust the list as they go through the variables.

This is correct: A PNM cannot be matched to her second choice chapter until her first choice chapter has reached quota. Likewise, a PNM cannot be matched to her third choice chapter until both her first and second choice chapters have reached quota.

If all chapters reach quota before a PNM is matched, the PNM will either be a quota addition or considered to have been (and I hate this term) "cross cut."

Quota additions are matched either by chapter size (smaller chapter getting priority for additions) or PNM's preference, depending upon the campus. Quota additions are interesting (to me, at least) because they are an instance where a PNM is more likely to get her first choice if she is low on the bid list of all of the chapters whose preference she attended. A PNM on the second bid list of each chapter she attends may end up with her third choice, while a chapter may end up with a quota addition who is the absolute last person on their bid list.