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ok, to kind of clarify what I thought ol' denny was trying to say.....
1) he said between bush and saddam......meaning that they both could very well be bad, but between the two, bush has yet to throw any chem weapons our way 2)has iraq followed orders? they say they have.....or something.....but i find it hard to really believe what saddam says is happening.....that guy is a crack head!!! (if anyone is offended by crack head, please omit and replace it with "evil dictator." ;) ) 3) it's funny....c'mon.......:D 4)...just saying if you're against the war and that's your big reason behind it...he sees no relation 5)the relation between saddam and bin laden is that they are both hostile towards us and would like nothing better than to see us all dead.....in this instance, denny feels that we ARE above the UN and we SHOULD take this action as both self-defense (remember 9/11 or the first PG war?) as well as helping the iraqi ppl get away from saddam's craziness 6)is a joke like the french mil. victory thing....the west wing....c'mon ;) 7) refer to my #5 8) i think i'm out of the loop on that one, too........but i guess some ivy league profs think something is up on the right wing side....? anyone???? 9)yeah.......:rolleyes: 10) says it all maybe that helps, maybe it makes it worse.....hoping it helps! monica |
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So with that said, I'm done with this post, I'm done with GC. I'm tired of people here feeling the need to validate themselves by attacking other people. I see enough of that in RL, I don't need it in cyberspace as well. I agree wholeheartedly with what Virtuous Erudite said before inasmuch as the attacking of people because of a post on a web board is asinine, and I quote him here, as I don't want anyone to take this out of context: "I think it is ridiculous that ANYONE and I mean anyone whether for this war or against is has had the audacity to call anyone a dumbass, ignorant, stupid, curse at or belittle anyone because they don't happen to agree with your opinion. " So quite honestly I've had enough belittling for one day, no, let me rephrase myself lest I be misunderstood yet again, I've had enough belittling from people that I don't know and who don't know me, for the remainder of my lifetime. Good luck to all of you in the future, regardless of your opinions. |
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aoii, nooooo....don't kiss off GC altogether.....these things always get heated. while i agree that there needs to be no name calling, it's just hard to keep it all on a low boil. just avoid these threads......
hope to see you on here still (i don't think you're an ignorant person:) ) greek love, monica |
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I honestly hope you do not leave GC entirely just because of one post. If it really offended you that much, I'm sorry . . . I would advise staying out of the more obviously political threads (I definitely do on days when I know I'm feeling oversensitive) if you are easily offended, but I definitely don't think you should leave the board entirely. There are people who would miss you here! I certainly don't think that anybody should take what they read on an internet message board as an attack on character, because nobody online has any idea what your character is actually like. |
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Screw you Monica :D Just kidding, I thought i would try to make someone laugh, apparently the seriousness of our discussions is making that formidable... - RUgreek |
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screw me?? just kidding?!?!?!? and i thought that was an honest offer.....dammit! i hate it when the dream is killed before it even has a chance!
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I just reread this whole thread again from the front to the last!
I hang my head and cry for some of the things posted on here!http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmili...d/nixweiss.gif Why should we bad rap the Canadians where We All in some cases have Brothers/Sisters in the USA and Canadia! Many Americans have been killed to give you the right to say what you are saying! What about the ones who are dieing now! Was fighting the British wrong, was the French-American War wrong, was the Civial War Wrong, the WW I, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam, or any other? Some of you are so small minded, and back bighting ythat it is sickening and if it keeps up, I will weep for you! I will not give DA's clicheses (?) any crediance or the very attacks on him or anyone elses attacks of a personnel nature. This is one of the most vocal sirtes on GC and it is not pleasent for any of us. War is hell! Do any of you think that the only wars are the ones by the USA? Look at a war map and see how many countries are in a state of war of one kind or another! There are more places that there is some fighting than not! Unless YOU know what is actually going on at the fore front and getting shot at, get of your mind head in ass sets! How many of you have had to go find people who have killed some one? How many of you have ever been shot at? Is War Hell, you God Damn Right it is! Have you ever been shot, cut or wounded in some way? Rightousness is a priviliage, not a right! The reason I asked these questions is yes I have, yes to all of the above! Does all of this geopolitical economics hurt you and me, Da! YES! Buisiness is slow in all factors. I must go to bed, I am tired of seeing the petty BULLSHIT FROM SOME SEMI THINKING PEOPLE! I Bid Ya Adoo as in Mc Goo! TTFN! and F**K Some of You! Get it, got it! |
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alright alright, it's not enough we argue, now we're arguing about people arguing. Let's just stop and think for a moment, please... http://www.mypranks.com/images/masturbating.jpg There, I've said my peace.:cool: |
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Doh! |
I've been AWOL on this thread for a while, so here is my piece.
I never intended to hi-jack this thread and turn part of it into a debate on Canadian Foreign policy. That being said, don't call me on for my citizenship, in any way, shape or form. Joke or no joke stuff is alot more serious right now. we all have to watch our tounges. If you want to discuss the participation of the world, or in Canada in specific, i suggest sombody open a thread. i for one don't give two shits. I am in essence trying to back down fro an argument, not because there isn't fact to argue, but because at this point it isn't necessary to argue it. Like i said, call my citizenship on again and you will recieve a not so nicely worded response. Thats it ---Steve |
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One of the reasons I enjoy heated political discussions about war and politics here on GC is because things are so different where I'm coming from. I do not personally know ANYONE (that includes classmates, professors, coworkers, friends, supervisors, parents, grandparents, siblings, other family members, veterans, active duty, Americans, foreign-born citizens, etc.) who supports this war, and I've been very confused about exactly who makes up this 70% of those who support the war. GC is actually the only forum (real life or cyberspace) where I can discuss the war with those who actually support it. I haven't really received any personal attacks, but when I have, I've simply let them roll off my back--as I do in real life. If someone belittles me, it's their problem--not mine. Leaving during a heated argument does nothing to support my argument, and if I felt it did, I wouldn't feel as if I were a mature adult. |
I think arguing about something like this is pretty senseless anyway (I mean, unless you just want to get a rise out of folks). We don't have all of the facts. We don't know Bush's true intentions. We don't know what REALLY is going on over there. We can't prove anything on either side until the end of the war. People are just talking out of their a$$es meanwhile.
I just hope something good comes out of all of this war, perhaps a lesson in humility at least. |
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Do you mean you'd rather see us lose the war and run out of Iraq with our tail between our legs than for the Iraqi people to be liberated from the current oppressive government? Don't want to put words in your mouth so please expain? |
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Absolutely not. I did not imply that I wanted our side to lose the war. Either I used the wrong phrase to express my thoughts or some people are reading too deeply into that phrase. I sure hope we DON'T lose the war. |
Bro2b"The true mark of an intelligent man is to hold two conflicting notions in his mind and debate them internally." - Thomas Edison Excellent!
It is estimated that each day of protest costs $900,000.00. The police force is unable to focus on homeland security. These large crowds are perfect targets for acts of terrorism. "Man on the street" interviews indicate- Many involved in the protests have no idea what in the hell they are protesting. Many protesters are organized in the sense that this is their life...when one demonstration is over, they move on to the next. Many protesters (IMO) are indeed caught up in the image of the movement. -It has been reported that France had technicians in Iraq training the regime in the use of the jamming instruments as recently as 3 weeks ago. Also, sanctioned items have been linked to France, Germany, Russia and China. All NO votes at the UN. -Over 3,000 chemical suits were found in a hospital in N. Iraq. More were found in bunkers. Anti-nerve agent vials were found as well. -NOW, Canada says they are interested in a tribunal to try Saddam and his cronies as war criminals. Don't get me started on France...they call us "bullies". The bottom line in my mind is EVERYTHING boils down to money: trade, CONTRACTS, expansion, extortion. Even if you take the stance that this is all for oil...which it is NOT, consider this- In a move to cripple the US economy (for whatever reasons, jealousy, power, hate fear) imagine a country where you cannot afford to drive your car or heat your home because we can't get the oil or the cost is prohibitive. You can't get a job because there aren't any. Your parents can't help you, because they have lost everything they worked so hard for. (A situation that is present today due to the clobbering of retirement funds.) Do you want to wait for ethanol to be sufficiently developed as a viable alternative to fossil fuel? What about our OWN resources? Many demonstrators would head straight for the next protest against developing Alaska or offshore drilling in an effort to be less dependent on the Middle East. All eyes are on us, and if we falter, we will be giving a green light to every country or individual that seeks power and the MEANS to destroy Western civilization. Are we to be a "paper tiger"? And if not US (us) then who will be the ones to protect your freedoms and the lifestyle we all have grown accustomed to? Who will be the real strength behind a stance against genocide. WE are the peacekeepers even if there must be force- as in the wordenforce-to do so. The historians will debate the outcome and consequences of this war for years. Like EVERYONE, I pray for ALL coalition soldiers, the president, the INNOCENTS and a swift end to this "conflict". |
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What DID you mean? |
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But how is that different from hoping we lose? |
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I don't think this war is taking longer that any of the people in the know expected. In every speech W has made, he has said that the road is going to be long and hard.
The people that thought this war was going to be over quick were just the average people on the street. I find it interesting that you think America needs another wake-up call, or setback, or whatever. I personally feel that no more Americans should die in a terrorist attack or otherwise needlessly, regardless of the "lesson" gleaned from the situation. Kitso KS 361 |
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Can't do it? That's right.. because they never said this would be over the same day it started. In fact they've been saying much the opposite. People are confusing REAL policy-makers and military folks with talking heads on the 24-hour news channels. There is a difference. |
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I'm just saying that as far as i'm concerned, 9-11 is the last wake-up call we ever need to get. From here on out, we need to protect our interests at home and abroad using whatever means necessary. Kitso KS 361 |
You guys, please stop picking on Dionysus. She didn't mean that people should die, and I believe her.
This war has been going on for only one week. I hope that it isn't a long drawn out war. The last I heard the President is asking Congress to allocate enough money for at least one month of fighting with six months of humanitarian aid. That's $175 billion. |
Re: Anti-War Protesters....
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THANK GOD for protesters! If it wasn't for protesters, MANY of us would not be here enjoying the freedoms that we have. And I am not talking about protests of the 60's or 70's but of those of TODAY! Broad ASSumptions are never good or grounded in good sense. You do not know eveything about this war, just as none of us really know the REAL DEAL. Why don't YOU move to Iraq? Since you seem to have everything figured out, why don't you take that "fighting spirit of conviction" and help them rise up against their government? It is real easy to talk a good game behind a computer when your arse haven't lived in those conditions. |
It seems to me that the protesters are interrupting other people's lives. They seem to be more of an inconvenience than an effective voice in changing this country's policy regarding Iraq.
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First and foremost, for people "in the know" the war was originally proposed to find and destroy weapons of mass destruction, right? Correct me if I am wrong on that one.
Nowadays, that little spiel has pretty much gone out the window. No more pretense, we are there to kill Saddam. Donald Rumsfeld has said as of yet, they have found NO evidence of WMD and they have yet to fire a SCUD missile. The chemical suits are hardly anything substantial. Why should they not have protective gear? The funny thing is, most people have blindly shifted their focus right along with Bush, as if it is a-ok. Do you not see the smoke and mirrors? No one is arguing that Saddam is a horrible dictator, guilty of terrorizing his own people. But don't sit on my TV and try to say that we are going to war to find and destroy WMD, when you KNOW it is to soley to find and kill someone. When they find any kind of chemical weapon or WMD, I will concede that this war was a necessary evil. Until then, I call it LIES. As for Dionysus statement about humility, I didn't take it to mean that Americans should die or we should have another 9/11. I took it to mean that we will have some serious egg on our faces if this war is over and there are no WMD/biological weapons. |
hold up hold up hold up hold up.....if it wasn't for the protestors of today we wouldn't be enjoying freedoms?????? i think you meant SOLDIERS. protestors aren't the ones fighting the enemies, they are attempting to fight the system, and i don't think anyone has truly gained anything yet from looking like they are dead in the street in NYC. that, to me, is truly horrifying b/c it wasn't too long ago when there were real dead bodies lying there. not saying ppl don't have the right to protest, but whatever happened to just holding signs in front of the white house SIDEWALK, not blocking traffic? i mean, c'mon. it's just as...um....effective as what they are doing now (meaning, it does nothing but draw attention and make our soldiers feel "half of america hates" them---i got an email from a guy on the constellation...that is exactly what he told me....that is what he thinks when he sees that....:mad: ), just not conflicting with other people's daily lives. everyone has the right to their opinion and their voice.....but don't act like animals. act responsible...you get more positive attention when you don't show your ass on tv....
monica |
A couple of opinions/points in no particular order
1. I 100% support our military, every soldier -- but I think it's a nonsequitur to expect that supporting the troops and supporting their orders are the same thing. 2. The top ten list whatever thing is not by Dennis Miller (check Snopes.com, a common myth-debunking site with good credibility). That doesn't mean a lot, but people might have been less likely to accept it/pass it on without a famous name on it. 3. Food for thought, because I'm an admitted isolationist. Countries run by dictators or tyrannical regimes overthrow those leaders and fight for their own rights, throughout history. The countries of eastern Europe did it (Romania being famous for its brutal vicious leader Ceausescu). Countries in South America have done it. America did it. (Slight tangent, paraphrased from a quote I don't remember: The Vietnam war was a civil war, bound up in the cold war democratic vs. communist debate. What if the Spanish (to pick a random country) had come over during our Civil War, picked a side, and handed out canned foods and candy to the kids? ) I feel that Saddam Hussein has been proved to be a brutal, vicious, evil man. I pray that he will be stricken from the face of the Earth. But I question whether it is our responsibility alone to impose our timeline for that on the country and people of Iraq. (And maybe it's because I'm not keeping up, but I'm still not seeing the proof of the Al Qaeda - Sept. 11 - Iraq connection). I will not march now, I will not stop traffic. I will make my opinion known firmly but quietly to those in power. I will support our troops. I will pray. Greekgrrl PS. If you must flame me, be gentle. |
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Not suprised that went right by you. And furthermore, there are and continue to be PEACEFUL protest throughout this country. Apparently, the actions of SOME in NYC all of a sudden represents EVERY protester. :rolleyes: |
ok...civil rights movements, ya got me. but when someone is in a thread that is generally talking about war related stuff, it probably will tend to slip "right by" me b/c that is a different topic...still a protest, yes, and even a war of sorts.... but not over foreign war related affairs...such as most of the ppl on here are talking about. thanks for being obnoxious about it, though....appreciate that b/c it was oh SO necessary. :rolleyes:
and people involved with the civil rights movement also got on with their daily lives....compared to the protests of today, how many of them got down in the street to play possum? they took a non-violent stance on things....and therefore, people paid attention, and here we are today. and i know there are plently of peaceful protests and all that, but i think, again, on this particular thread, people were voicing concerns about the non-peaceful, over-obnoxious protests that make our soldiers think we hate them. or at least that's what i was getting at.....didn't mean for that to go right by you..... monica and if i am wrong with any of my civil rights stuff, go ahead and correct me.....but please refrain from referring to me as "dear"...i have yet to stoop to a level of any type of name calling, and would appreciate the same. thanks. |
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Oh, and don't get so sensitive on the whole civil rights deal. That was not the point. Since I see now this thread is pretty much "Soap Box Central" its nothing to get in a huff about. |
not getting huffy about the civ. rights comment, you brought it up, so i was just remarking that you were RIGHT in certain times of protest....i got huffy about being talked to like a complete moron b/c, to me, that makes someone lose their credibility when they resort to that kind of debate tactic. but whatever....i never asked for and would never expect an apology from you, don't worry.
it's just that you missed/over-looked where i was discussing a specific group of protestors who take to lying in the street like dead ppl so police officers have to come out there and CARRY them off so society can go on with its business. and really, it's more or less a discussion of what is on the news everyday than a "broad" and "general" statement about protestors....we all know neg. news is more often than not a longer segment than positive news...which is why support rallies are often no more than a slight mention. or at least that is what i have personally noticed. m |
I can see your point AlphaGamDiva. I think the gibberish of the very first post of this thread just has me too worked up.
Regarding the "die in" protest in NYC, sure, they could be like the majority of the US protestors and voice their opinions in peaceful, less shocking ways, but they know that it will not get them the media attention. No media attention, no message about their opinion of the war. This is apparent because everyday here in the US protest are happening, but they just aren't being reported. Also, everyone has different levels as to what they think "peaceful" is. Earlier this week, there was a protest near the shop where I get my nails done. Nothing serious, no yelling, just protesters on the corner with signs asking people to honk. Well, two women walk in complaining about how they are causing trouble with what they are doing. I think to myself, how? :confused: Anyway, as someone else stated, those protest may be costing NYC $900,000 a day (although I am not sure about what that amount entails - is it strictly that of law enforcement salaries or does it include the lost revenue of businesses) but it is WAY cheaper than the cost of this war and the proposed cost of this Homeland Security appropriations that our president is trying to get passed. |
Sooo, basically you think people should protest by quietly holding signs in the corner, because you don't want to be disturbed or shocked? That is the POINT of protesting!!!!
The civil rights movement was quiet? hahahaha, um, yeah, getting food dumped on your head in a restaurant, being hosed down and attacked by dogs in the streets, and being lynched, wow, that was a really boring movement wasn't it? And yet even after all that effort black people still have to deal with alot of unfair shit. So maybe that gives you an idea of why protesters really need to be grab the attention of the public for sustained periods of time. The point is, you get annoyed, disturbed, whatever, and hopefully if the cause is a good one(which it is in this case, I really want to see someone reply and say peace is not a good cause, that will really be amusing), that feeling of annoyance actually comes from an uncertainty about the situation, and over time the movement gains more and more supporters until the ultimate goal is achieved. Get it? I leave you with a quote you may have heard recently, "Fighting for peace is like f*cking for virginity." |
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