I haven't been able to watch any of SL3 or even SL2 (my current location does not have MTV or English language tv at all for that matter), but I thought this thread was interesting and I wanted to respond to some of the issues presented here.

About White people getting lumped together--one of the main reasons that White people are put together in one group or category in this country is that most White people in the US are not 1st generation immigrants anymore. Most White americans are at LEAST 3rd or 4th generation, if not more. Even though the various European countries have very different cultures and languages, almost NO White americans speak those languages or have the cultures of their countries anymore. Younger White americans who are born and brought up here may try to actively SEEK cultural ties, like learning about their culture, taking a language class, etc., but these cultural ties for the most part do not have a strong presence in the home (in other words, not too many White people in the US are sitting at home talking German. Even if your grandmother is, chances are, you aren't). So even though White people come from many different countries a few generations back, White americans are now, for the most part, fully "americanized"--the Italian-American's experience in the US is not much different (if there is ANY difference at all) from a British-American, German American, etc. SO sometimes there are still cultural ties, or new ties to the old culture are made, but for the most part White Americans have similar cultures and similar experiences in this country, so they are grouped together.

Now some people on here have stated/complained that non-whites are allowed (or forced to, however you see it) maintain their cultural ties and are separated into groups, but White people are lumped together. HELLLOOOOOO-do you NOT realize that "African-Americans" are all lumped together too?? Last time I checked, Africa was a CONTINENT, not a country! There are sooo many countries, cultures, and languages in Africa (probably many more than Europe), but African-Americans were unfortunately STRIPPED of their ties to their culture, and now everyone in the US gladly lumps African-Americans together without thinking twice, while they steadily complain about Whites being lumped together. And another thing--What about Jamaicans? Should THEY be called African-American? What about "Black" people from Cuba, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, or Haiti? Should they be called African-American? What about a British Black person in the US? What about Aboriginals (for those that don't know, these are the Native people of Austrailia who are dark-skinned and look "Black")? There are so many different roots, cultures, backgrounds of "African"-Americans, but we lump them into one group. And we often do the EXACT same thing for Asians, Middle-Easterners, Native Americans, etc. So don't get mad when people group all "White" Americans together, because exactly the same thing is done to every other group in the US without a second thought.

On to the next topic--I read a few people on here stating that NPC sororities are diverse and/or multicultural. I don't know what things were like on other campuses (and I am trying not to assume), but I attended University of Maryland, College Park, which is considered (by some) to be a diverse school, and the NPC sororites on our campus were anything BUT diverse or multi-cultural. Not only were they almost 100% White (yeah sometimes a house had the token Black girl or the token Indian girl but when its 1 or 2 out of 80, that is pretty damn near 100%), but even the White people in each sorority weren't diverse!! You had the Jewish from NJ/NY houses, the Christian houses, the I'm Christian PLUS I like athletics houses. It was UNBELIEVABLE to me how these sororities work SO HARD to recruit COOKIE CUTTERS of themselves. I knew one girl that wanted to join a predominatly Jewish house, and HID the fact that she was Christian during rush so that she could get in. Whether or not she HAD to do it, who knows and who cares, but she FELT it was neccessary, and that speaks VOLUMES for the "diversity" of some of the NPC sororities on Maryland's campus. Now I WILL say that not ALL of them were like that (I don't want you all thinking that I'm lumping everyone together when I'm preaching against it LOL), but even the more "diverse" NPC sororities still consisted almost completely of middle or upper income White people. Yeah YEAH maybe their great grandparents came from different parts of Europe, but its still not diverse. Before I start getting hate male, I am not knocking these sororities--everyone has a right to make their own choices in life, and each person should do what is right for them. I also agree that, even in a predominately White sorority, you can still interact with people very different from yourself--different majors, different personalities, different religions, etc--and a lot can be learned from this. But I still don't think that you can call this type of sorority "multicultural."

Believe it or not, I wanted to respond to other issues raised on this thread, but I have been typing WAY too long (I'm an English majors who struggles with conciseness LOL), so I will have to save it for another day.

I'm pretty new to GC, but I have been browsing and reading various threads for about a month. I like what I've seen so far--a variety of interesting topics are discussed on here--so you might be seeing more of me in the future. :D

That's why I said in my post "I understand where it comes from". It doesn't matter (IMO) where it started - it matters that it's still perpetuated. It's wrong - but when "white" people try to distance themselves from that, or try to lay claim to their own heritage, people pooh-pooh it as whining, or right wing rhetoric.

My thing is - labels suck. Period. But if we're going to use labels to identify people, at least let them be historically and culturally significant.

Ooh, there's so much more I want to say about this, but I don't want to turn this into another GC race war. But I will say this (and then I'm out, cause I don't even get SL up here!): it's this kind of passing, this kind of "whitewashing" of history that allows racial intolerance to flourish.

It was mentioned that sororities (NPC) tend to be 'white' and not 'multicultural'. I have a thing to say about that. Sororities cannot control who goes through rush, it's that simple.
At ASU this fall rush, I was helping out 'backstage' so to speak for my sorority. I mostly saw white girls rushing. Now my sisters can't control that, no house can.
Now, ASU has a strong network of MCGLO's. There are sororities and fraternities for Hispanics, African Americans, etc...
Just because we have those doesn't stop girls from rushing. My sorority at ASU would actually be considered quite diverse. You can't walk onto our campus and be 'oh that girls a so and so', like you can on some other campuses (and yes that statement is true).
I realize that SL 3 has stirred up feelings when it comes to race, but this subject is and will probably always be very touchy. I understand that the GLO is a MCGLO, but it doesn't mean this thread now has become about race.

Agree with me, disagree with me, just respect my opinion.

Brianna

Hun I completely agree. Just because this is a MCGLO it doesn't mean that people have to make it about race. My main reason is that MCGLO's mostly don't make it about race. . .it's everyone else that does. All we try to do is understand, respect, and learn about each others culture. . .and if a problem does come up we talk about it. And I've talked about the same stuff that is brought up here with my sisters and I see where their frustration is. And they see where mine is. But there is no way either of us could completely understand.


I think the problem is that some people haven't seen how other people are just as frustrated as they are. . .and yes I mean someone outside of your race. I think when other people say that their sorority or fraternity isn't Multicultural they mean that. . .yeah some come from different backgrounds but the one fact remains that they are all grouped into the "white" category and in American "white" people are treated differently.

It's not about labeling if you think about it, it's about what you look like. For example, my grandmother passed for white decades ago, so she was lumped with the "white" people. It was solely based on her looks and not what she actually was. It all goes back to when all of these labels began. . .I don't think people cared where you came from but if you had certain features you were lumped with that certain group. And some people just let it go (like many light skinned African Americans did) because, let's face it people, anyone with "white" features are treated differently.

P.s.- Maybe someone will take this all too touchy subject to another post about it, because this is meant to be about SL3. . .Even though I really can't stand the show right now :D

It's true that we can't control -- in a direct way -- who goes through NPC rush. But there is something about NPC sororities that doesn't attract many women of color, and we need to figure out why that is. Like you said, at many schools almost all the women going through NPC recruitment are white. A girl who isn't white might feel out of place in a situation where everyone else in her rush group is white and she might drop out. Other girls might not even check out NPC rush at all -- maybe because traditionally everyone in her family is an AKA, or because of the history of whites-only policies in NPC GLOs, or because they read about things that happen at certain schools and assume that that attitude is more prevalent than it is.

Nevertheless, whatever the reasons are, until we can start attracting more women of other races, the NPC will remain primarily white. But the NPC doesn't really seem to address the overwhelming "whiteness" of most of its sororities, so to many outsiders it looks like we don't think it's a problem and that we prefer the status quo.

I found a Tri Delta pledge manual from 1990 in our house and was looking through it. It was pretty similar to what we had used, until I got to the section on the history of Tri Delta. In the 1965-1975 section, it read somthing like "Various civil rights groups attacked sororities' rights to choose who they want as a member." :eek: :eek: :eek: Now for all I know, they could be talking about men who thought sororities should turn co-ed -- but what it sounds like to anyone with a solid grasp on the history of that time is that, as late as 1990, Tri Delta was still pissed off that back in the day they had been forced to accept non-whites into their organization.

Now I'm glad that Tri Delta either realized that that passage came off differently than they intended it, or changed their ways in regards to discrimination -- just recently we were the first NPC organization to ban discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, which in my opinion is fantastic. But many NPC members held similar viewpoints well into the 70s, 80s, 90s and even today. As it is, I'm not at all surprised that more women of color don't decide to join NPC organizations -- we still have a long way to go before many of them will feel entirely comfortable here.

back to the episode...
 

In one of the previews it looks like a girl is getting food thrown at her. I hope I saw that wrong.

You noticed that too huh? It totally looked like a girl was sitting down and allowing another sister to push food into her face. If that isn't hazing I sure as hell don't know what is.

Brianna

Oh Geez
 

So I'm watching the rerun now and I gotta say this should be interesting. You know Meena so isn't going to cross. I understand that some people feel that sisters busting out with respect at this point is uncalled for, but respect goes both ways. That whole leaving the first meeting early and not knowing what was going on all week is so not cool. She should have asked her pledge sisters to fill her in, I don't think she wants this it's more of just a notch on her belt of things she did when she was in college. Val definitely looks like a robot when she talks. Does anyone else think it's cuz she's reading off cue cards?

Re: Oh Geez
 

Val=relative of Al Gore? The chick scares me as much as the 2003 model of Gore. She has no emotion, maybe that's why she's the pledge mom. I'm kind of confused though. . .so the pledge mom is supposed to be mean and the sisters are supposed to be nice? Hmmmmm, this must be a very different multicultural sorority. Does anyone know any background info on the group?

I understand what you're saying - but I don't feel bad for them. They do it to themselves! If you only want potential new members who are really interested in your sorority - don't invite MTV into your lives! It's really not that complicated!

Re: Oh Geez
 

I finally saw the episode, so here are my thoughts...

Val - I don't think she's mean or unemotional. She seems like someone who is taking her role as pledge mom serious. She could be coming across like this to the pledges in hopes of letting them know that joining is serious business, especially for those women that may be there for MTV. Maybe she is just not a "bubbly" person. She does remind me of Coral too. ;)

Meena - She should have followed up on what happened at the meeting, either by getting with Val beforehand, or by talking with her pledge sisters afterwards. I don't think she will last long.

On a lighthearted note, I thnk Janelle looks like Samantha Mumbo and Matt (from FL) looks like Jack Black. :D

So far I think SL III is interesting......

i saw the reruns this afternoon and i only have 2 comments...

1. the first time i saw val, i thought....oh my god, pauli is in another sorority!!!! she totally looks exactly like pauli from sl1. i don't know if it is the hair and glasses or what...but wow!

2. i love those pens!!! did you see the pens that the pledges were using? i want one.

I totally understand and agree with your point--a lot of the time, NPC sororities (or any sorority for that matter) cannot control who goes through rush, and if only white girls go, that's all they are going to get. I also always appreciated and admired the NPC sororities on Maryland's campus that (IMO) were "cool" and "down to earth"--the ones that had all different kinds of girls, and you couldn't tell which sorority they were in just by looking at them. Unfortunately, there are a lot of "cookie cutter" sororities at Maryland, where you can tell EXACTLY what sorority a girl is in by looking at her. These sororities not only make ALL the sororities look bad (because people ususally assume they are all like this), but they are a big reason why mostly only white girls go through rush--because they know they wouldn't fit in at houses like this.

I'm not sure if you were referring to me when you said "people pooh-pooh it as whining," because I CERTAINLY don't think it's whining when people try to connect with their culture and are proud of their Italian, German, etc. heritage. Actually, I think its great when people know where they come from and are proud of this. What I DO think is whining are the people in this forum who have said that African-Americans don't get lumped together, why should white people. My point was that African-Americans certainly ARE lumped together, no matter their background. But, to put extra emphasis on the positive, I think its great when people still have ties or create new ties to their cultures--I think you can get a lot of understanding and a broader perspective of the world when you learn about a culture or country outside of the US.

It's true, labels suck, but unfortunately, this country is obsessed with labels, and everywhere you turn they are asking us to fill in a bubble and lump ourselves into one category. Can you imagine a bubble sheet listing every European country so that white people wouldn't be put in one category? LOL that thing would be pretty long. At least we are saving trees but not being so specific. :D I'm totally for people identifying as Italian-American, etc, but from the govt's perspective its a little unrealistic. But, if you want a more historically and culturally significant label, maybe people should start using caucasian or European-American more often (but then again, what about the white people from Russia that actually live in Asia? lol. I guess caucasian would be the more inclusive of the two). I think the reason people still use "white" and "black" a lot is that its just a lot shorter and quicker than using European-American and African-American.

I wasn't trying to start a race war in here, I just wanted to add my $19.90:)

Now that I am back, I will comment on something else that has been brought up in this forum--LGLOs and BGLOs appearing on Sorority Life. I can speak from the perspective of LGLOs, and I also have a lot of friends in BGLOs so I know their perspective is pretty similar to ours. Our intake processes (or pledging), and sometimes even our rush, are traditionally kept VERY secret. For the most part, we do not let the outside world see how we choose our members or what potential members have to do during our intake process. Discretion if VERY KEY to LGLOs and BGLOs, and having your whole intake process on national tv is anything but discrete. Another reason why LGLOs and BGLOs will not appear on SL is because hazing laws are so incredibly strict these days, and ANYTHING you do at ALL can be considered hazing, so showing your process on tv could cause major problems for an org if outsiders considered what you do to be hazing. I'm not saying I'm pro-beating or anything like that. But traditionally, LGLOs and BGLOs DO make their candidates EARN their letters. This has been a key part of our organizations for many years, and many outsiders looking in would not understand our processes at all and lump it all together as hazing. So, although it would be really interesting to see an LGLO or BGLO on SL, no one wants to be the one to expose their secrets or get accused of hazing, so it will most likely never happen.

Last night, I caught the last few minutes of the first episode. I just wanted to scream and throw a big wad of paper at the screen.

http://216.40.249.192/s/contrib/edoo...it_all_out.gif

It's very true that African Americans do get lumped together. But as I said it's mostly based on looks. I had two roommates from the Virginia Islands last year and they would tell me all the time how people from down there HATE to be lumped with African Americans, and they are lumped with African Americans because we both come from the same country and have similar features. But their culture is completely different. I think it's easier for people to lump other people together than ask.

And about the secrecy (sp?) thing. . .this sorority isn't a regular MCGLO. Well at least not to me. All of the other MCGLO's I've researched have an intake process that is extremely secret and would never allow it on t.v.. I'm kind of wondering if they changed it for the t.v. show. . .can't they do that since they're local?

In a word: no.

awhile ago, somebody on this thread asked why there's only locals featured on SL; my glo doesn't permit us to associate ourselves with the organization when it comes to dealing with the press; do any other orgs have this rule?

I think most National/Internations GLOs do have these kinds of rules in place.

Theoretically, yes they can change it since they don't have a national board to answer to. But they have been around since 1991...I would wager there would be a hella big stink by the alumnae if the current sisters were like "oh, we changed thus and so because MTV wanted it to be more camera friendly." :eek:

so far, this looks like a big snoozer.

A lot of our locals do stuff like this - you get a signature everytime you see an active. For example, say I see you in the bathroom at 9:00, then have class with you at 10:00, see you in the library at 1:00, see you at the house at 4:00, and at my pledge event at 9:00. I'd get your signature every single one of those times.

I hear that! Nice merchandise, but you can usually find the same items somewhere else for cheaper.

Very well put.

I think the new season sucks. Needs more content...very "MTVish" :rolleyes:

SL3 IS NOT FOR ME...
 

Being a NPC GLO alum that pledged over a decade ago (eek) and not being ashamed to admit that I am a closet teenager, I haved watched all episodes of SL1 and SL2 and FL1. Now, I have started with the new seasons of both. MTV is not doing anybody any favors here with this show and it is just getting worse and worse.

Nonetheless, I know that I will continue to watch these shows and shake my head...lol. I am glad that they are featuring a MCGLO, but if all they are going to show is them being all catty and pissy to each other for the drama element, that isn't too cool either. You would think that any org that wanted to be followed for an entire semester would be leery of MTV and how they are going to edit the show since they have seen two other seasons get progressively worse. Oh...and the FL2 guys...I just could have done without the puking in the bucket thing...that is for sure!

Ugh...I am really dating myself here, but I remember that when BH90210 had all the girls rushing at CU (I was in college and in the house) and they made it out to be really really STUPID and totally lame...all the bad stuff (hazing, racism for example). I just remember that everyone in a sorority was really upset about how dumb it was and it was just frustrating to think how we were going to have to overcome that stereotype to PNMs and others who also came into contact and drew all their conclusions about Greek Life from stupid shows such as that. Well it really looks like MTV has handed Greeks all over another hurdle to overcome with the SL and FL series that are getting crappier and crappier each season.

http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung0...smiley-033.gif

I agree with EVERYTHING you just said. It's really funny how it's ok to lump african, asian, and latino people in one group (minorities) but when someone says that a person is white, people have a heart attack...

When I first found out that the sorority was going to be multicultural, I knew that this discussion was going to start on GC. I really think that people should do a little bit of research on the purpose of multicultural sororities before they assume that "white" people aren't welcomed in a multicultural sorority. It makes me sooooo angry when a "white" person says that they can't join my sorority because they are white :eek:. Contrary to popular belief, multicultural sororities purpose isn't to recruit every color in the rainbow so that we can LOOK like a multicultural sorority. If you look at our programs and events (lectures, dialogues, semenars, etc. and not just parties...) that we organize on campus, most of them are to educate not only our members but the ENTIRE campus about race and cultures issues (multicultural means more than multi-ethnic). Our purpose is to bridge the gap that this country has PURPOSELY created. People in other countries aren't so focused on labels like we are.

Technically, every group is SUPPOSED to be multicultural. It's against the law to discriminate against a certain race. If I am apart of a math club and we have every race imaginable in our club, does that make us a multicultural group? NO We are still a math club because that is our number one purpose is math. But if our main purpose is to help different populations of the country increase their math skills (low income whites, blacks, asians, latino, native american, etc..) then the Math club is multicultural. I know people aren't going like what I'm about to say, but how many NPC/IFC groups would "allow" other races and religions in their organization if there wasn't a law saying that you had to???

Just like WhirlwindTNX said... This multicultural sorority isn't like what the bigger multicultural sorority are like. Some multicultural sororities are modeled after NPC, most are model after NPHC, and some are just random... like Zeta Sigma Phi...

Yeah, I agree. People should definitely do research. Like I received a lot of grief for joining Theta Nu Xi in the beginning because all of my friends who were interested or knew everything about NPHC said that I was just joining because we don't haze and they thought we were more NPC like. . .which is an straight lie out of ignorance. So I told them to research it and then try to tell me not to join, and they came back and couldn't.


Point of the story: RESEARCH! You really can't start talking like you know all about a certain kind of sorority and how they work unless you do research.


ONE Luv,
Whirl :)

thanks zchi. :)

i wish i could be watching SL3 to see what fools these girls are making of themselves. lol

zzzzzzzzzzzzz

This season is boring.

If they wanted to feature minority girls on SL, they should've picked a local sorority that was modeled after NPHC. That would be totally interesting. These girls are "watered down".

From what I've seen, I think the Zeta girls are awesome! :D And so do a lot of people in Southern Cali - I know more people tuning into SL than ever before! Also, I know guys in frats at USC, and they think the Zeta girls are cute and fun, and that the other NPC sorors who are talking ish about Zetas are just jealous, because Zetas will be the face of USC, rather than them.

Why I like the show so far: Zeta Sigma Phi seems to be a tight group of girls, they go to a top school: USC (a well-known school kids across the country actually aspire to attend, no offense to SUNY-B or UCD), and they just seem to all be very different - though they're all cute, there's no cookie-cutter look or personality in this group - I like that. :cool:

Previous seasons of SL were just OK IMO because I personally couldn't connect with the (predominately) white girls on SL1 & SL2. But that's pop culture - when Halle Berry made it big, a lot of girls I know who were half black/half white just identified more with her, or when Lucy Liu was the it girl, lots of Asian girls I know felt pride in seeing "one of their own" considered a mainstream beauty, or J-Lo for Latina and Puerto Rican girls today. That isn't to say that minority girls can't identify with white females in entertainment - it's just a true perspective from this one girl. SL3 is great because even MORE girls who watch MTV (Greek or not) will be able to identify with the Zetas, and actually see Greek life as a real possibility for them when they get to college - whether they join NPC, NPHC, AGLO, LGLO, MC or other sorority.

From reading some of the other posts, it's just amazing that some Greek Gen Y and Gen Xers can still be so offended by the differences of this one sorority. I had more faith in our generation! Why would you get so offended when a group portrayed on TV is simply different from what YOU experienced? As if it's a personal attack on your life? That's like saying the Simpsons, Rosanne or Everybody Loves Raymond define ALL American families. Pretty narrow-minded thinking. :( Just as TV and movies show different aspects of life, isn't the purpose of SL to show all different kinds of Greek life?

And I also have to note: After seeing only one episode, it's pretty sad that some people can decide this season sucks, or make such rude assumptions about a sorority they've never even heard of -- especially when MTV didn't even go into great depth about the active sisters or the sorority's history, etc. in episode one.

But it's pretty obvious that those mean comments only come from people with low self-esteem or more personal issues than the girls of Zeta Sigma Phi will ever have. ;)

oh my lord, i can't wait to read the responses to this :rolleyes:

Ok, thanks for the clarification because I only saw one episode and after reading the comments on here, I though I had missed a few. :(

Anyway, I don't think its fair to say that you should model yourself after NPC or NPHC (in terms of intake). Generally speaking I am sure that every GLO has their own way of doing things.

I think the big ruckus is simply the fact that they are on SLIII. They they was not, I'm sure if a member of ZSP had come on GC, and someone started making catty comments about the sorority, people would be quick to post things supporting them.

Oh brother, so much to say here (I'll keep it short)...
1) No, it's not a race thing. Please don't try to make it one.
2) MTV dropped the ball on this season. The reason many people claim it is boring after only one episode is because it was so rushed. There was no recruitment and no opportunity to "get to know" the members and pledges. We haven't been introduced to the girls, therefore we don't care about the girls, therefore it's boring.
3) I don't know if you're a lurker or if this is your first visit to GC, but if you'd seen the previous SL threads you'd understand that we critique the show as if it were any other television show. (In most cases) We're not knocking the GLO members, we're commenting on what we see and the "characters" that MTV creates.

1) I didn't think I was the first one to discuss the race aspect of this show... I was replying to the other posts. Thought this was a forum... ya know, for perspectives.
2) I totally agree with you - the first show was way too rushed, disorganized, wham-bam kind of delivery on the information, no good exposition, etc. But does that make it boring? Hardly... Totally poor production by the folks behind the show.
3) I didn't realize that by joining this chat group (or being the source of new opinions on this thread) made one a "lurker" - nice. Great way to welcome newcomers. You can knock the "characters" on the show all you want. I get my turn, too.

"Lurker" is not meant as an insult. It seems like you're a bit too defensive. I saw that it was your first post and I wasn't sure if you had been on the boards for a while without posting (aka Lurker) or if you were new.

First of all,

chill out. No one is insulting you when they call you a lurker. I think you seem to be the one that has issues when you come on here and get all "high and mighty" with us.

Secondly,

I don't know anyone that considers the Simpsons an All-American family. The reason? THEY'RE ANIMATED. :rolleyes:

Kitso
KS 361 times i'm gonna stir this pot for all its' worth

Attention: Zinka

You have violated Clause GC-33 of the Unanimous GC User Agreements by using the term "Gen-Xers."

Please delete your GC account immediately.

-only one person here is making this a "racial" issue. (i dont understand how a persons race makes you "connect" to them and their experiences they are going through during pledging).

-i think it is very interesting that mtv chose a multicultural sorority...i definitely believe it brings new aspects to independents who are unfamiliar with ALL of the greek system.

-i dont believe however mtv has done a good job so far of producing this show to be interesting whatsoever.

-i for one think the show is absolutely boring because in the first episode i have already seen sisters...mainly "j-flo" or whoever talking about the disrespect carmen is showing her by asking her to stop talking loudly outside of her OWN bedroom...what the?

-this season just doesnt seem to have much goin for it...i am not bias because the girls are not drop dead gorgeous or whatever...they are "real" girls which are nice to see...they just arent interesting, at least in the way mtv portrays them on tv...which is all i have to go by. sorry.

-i think mtv should build us a house and let all of us GC chatters live in a house together...because there is enough drama on this board to make a VERY INTERESTING SEASON...heh! j/k.

-

that BEGS for someone to bump the GC House thread on the chit chat board :)

Kitso
KS 361